Carbonating questions!

[neilb]

Hi, sorry for the newbie questions this is only my second batch

I've had a Young's lager carbonating for 11 days in my warm room (20 - 23°C) and I opened one yesterday after it was in the fridge overnight to have a look and see if everything is on track. When I was bottling into PET 500ml bottles, it was showing a lovely head but when I opened one of the bottles yesterday there was no head at all, not even when pouring. There were a few bubbles rising to the top when it was sat in the glass, but it tasted fine.
I used half a teaspoon of brewing sugar into each bottle so I cant understand why it was flat as the bottles felt fairly firm

When I was bottling I primed the bottles first with the brewing sugar then filled them, is this the correct way of doing it or should I have filled them first then added the sugar?

 

[Banbeer]

You've done everything ok, but what I would do before you pour your next bottle is give your glass of choice a good swill out with hot water first then try pouring, only do this though if you are used to washing your glass(es) in the dishwasher.

 

[thesteve]

Hi Neil, for me this is probably the most frustrating part of an otherwise fantastic hobby. It sounds like you have done things absolutely fine, it sometimes just takes a bit longer to carb up in certain cases. I know patience is difficult when you have waited a month after first brewing but hold tight, give it another couple of weeks in the warmth and I reckon it will be fine. I've had a few of these and they normally all come good eventually.

 

[neilb]

You've done everything ok, but what I would do before you pour your next bottle is give your glass of choice a good swill out with hot water first then try pouring, only do this though if you are used to washing your glass(es) in the dishwasher.

Yeah all our glasses are put in the dishwasher, thanks will try that next time.

I discovered this forum only after bottling so I followed the instructions on the kit. It was in the FV for 6 days with a FG reading of 1.006 which according to the instructions is reading to start bottling. If I'd known at the time I would've left it at least 10 to 14 days. Could this have had an impact?

 

[neilb]

Hi Neil, for me this is probably the most frustrating part of an otherwise fantastic hobby. It sounds like you have done things absolutely fine, it sometimes just takes a bit longer to carb up in certain cases. I know patience is difficult when you have waited a month after first brewing but hold tight, give it another couple of weeks in the warmth and I reckon it will be fine. I've had a few of these and they normally all come good eventually.

Hi Steve, thanks for that
I know it's only my second batch so I've got alot to learn, especially patience

 

[Banbeer]

Yeah all our glasses are put in the dishwasher, thanks will try that next time.

I discovered this forum only after bottling so I followed the instructions on the kit. It was in the FV for 6 days with a FG reading of 1.006 which according to the instructions is reading to start bottling. If I'd known at the time I would've left it at least 10 to 14 days. Could this have had an impact?

No this won't have any impact at all because you're adding sugar after primary fermentation to your bottles, were the bottles at 20°C 24hrs or was this just during the day.

 

[neilb]

No this won't have any impact at all because you're adding sugar after primary fermentation to your bottles, were the bottles at 20°C 24hrs or was this just during the day.

Ok good, thanks for that
24hrs a day, it's a right little hotspot! It gets the morning sun (I kept the curtains closed) which then keeps it warm for the rest of the day and night.

 

[terrym]

First I would say you have given your lager long enough for the carbonation to be complete, especially at 20*C for 11 days. I have a beer that is pretty much fully carbed after 5 days primed at the rate you have used (I know because I mostly used PET bottles).
Next lagers and other beers that are served cold usually need more priming sugar to have some fizz about them when they are served. Half tsp of sugar is OK for ales and low carb beers but you could increase that by 50% - 80%for a lager.
See here
https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/So your options are
- hope it carbs up a little more and if not put it down to experience
- serve it warmer
- if you have used PET bottles unscrew the cap and add more sugar (quickly! especially to avoid foaming)) but do this when the beer is chilled, I suggest you add about 1/4-1/3 tsp table sugar, then allow your beer to warm up again and then allow another 10-14 days in the warm to complete the carbing process.

 

[neilb]

First I would say you have given your lager long enough for the carbonation to be complete, especially at 20*C for 11 days. I have a beer that is pretty much fully carbed after 5 days primed at the rate you have used (I know because I mostly used PET bottles).
Next lagers and other beers that are served cold usually need more priming sugar to have some fizz about them when they are served. Half tsp of sugar is OK for ales and low carb beers but you could increase that by 50% - 80%for a lager.
See here
https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/So your options are
- hope it carbs up a little more and if not put it down to experience
- serve it warmer
- if you have used PET bottles unscrew the cap and add more sugar (quickly! especially to avoid foaming)) but do this when the beer is chilled, I suggest you add about 1/4-1/3 tsp table sugar, then allow your beer to warm up again and then allow another 10-14 days in the warm to complete the carbing process.

Thanks for that Terry, I shall have a think about it and then decide what best to do.
Though I do like your idea of adding more sugar. It'll give me the chance to try out your suggestion from a few days ago of squeezing the bottles slightly to get as much air out as possible before screwing the cap on

 

[Ale House Rock]

Thanks for that Terry, I shall have a think about it and then decide what best to do.
Though I do like your idea of adding more sugar. It'll give me the chance to try out your suggestion from a few days ago of squeezing the bottles slightly to get as much air out as possible before screwing the cap on

Can you or terrym enloghten me as to why you'd squeeze out the air from PET bottles before capping? I thought that the yeast needed the small amount of oxygen in the headspace in the bottle to get going again. Plus, as the bottle will initially 're-inflate' with CO2 before pressurising, won't this reduce the level of carbonation in your beer?

 

[terrym]

Can you or terrym enloghten me as to why you'd squeeze out the air from PET bottles before capping? I thought that the yeast needed the small amount of oxygen in the headspace in the bottle to get going again. Plus, as the bottle will initially 're-inflate' with CO2 before pressurising, won't this reduce the level of carbonation in your beer?

The generally held view is that oxygen is required during the initial aerobic yeast multiplication stage of the primary fermentation, but thereafter it is to be avoided since it causes oxidation off tastes (there must be 100s of posts about this on this forum alone). Yeast does not require oxygen to ferment sugars into CO2 and alcohol and the bulk of the primary and secondary fermentation stages are anaerobic. In terms of the yeast waking up to get going again I have never noticed this, my latest beer was fully carbed and clearing after 5 days, and that was with fairly minimal yeast in the bottle at the outset. As far as reinflating the bottle and loss of carbonation the bulk of the CO2 produced will be dissolved, and the CO2 that fills 20-25mm of reinflated headspace is quite small in comparison, and I certainly dont notice any difference in carbonation level and I mostly use a lowish rate of priming sugar, about 4g/litre.

 

[Edison]

Hi Neil, if you say the beer tasted fine but didn‘t keep its head, did it taste carbonated enough? As Banbeer said, if there’s any deposits on your glass it can affect head retention. This is interesting (well I thought so!):

https://www.cicerone.org/us-en/blog/cleaning-glassware
I‘m properly anal about my glassware now, my beer glasses never go in the dishwasher anymore and look much better for it.

 

[Banbeer]

I‘m properly anal about my glassware now, my beer glasses never go in the dishwasher anymore and look much better for it.

With you on that one, I remember taking some homebrew to a friend's BBQ and when he brought the pint glasses out I asked if it was ok to go and wash them out, his wife remarked about how clean they were and they'd been done in the dishwasher. My friend said he'll keep his glass as is and I washed mine, I poured the HB from a litre bottle and mine was fizzy and kept a nice head all the way down the glass but my friends looked flat and lifeless, he disappeared after that beer and by some sort of miracle the next beer was fine.

 

[Edison]

Glad it’s not just me!

Fresh, clean, hot soapy water and a ’beer glass only’ cloth, a very good rinse with hot water and a squirt of StarSan.

Quick rinse of cold water immediately before pouring and it’s all good. Nice long lasting head and great lacing.

Hate going to a bar (remember those?) and getting a glass with bubbles stuck to the side, turns my stomach!

 

[neilb]

Hi Neil, if you say the beer tasted fine but didn‘t keep its head, did it taste carbonated enough? As Banbeer said, if there’s any deposits on your glass it can affect head retention. This is interesting (well I thought so!):

https://www.cicerone.org/us-en/blog/cleaning-glassware
I‘m properly anal about my glassware now, my beer glasses never go in the dishwasher anymore and look much better for it.

This is all very interesting, I'm loving it! Yes, I would say there was a little "fizz" within the lager as I was drinking it, as I mentioned in an earlier post there were a few bubbles rising when it as stood in the glass.

First I would say you have given your lager long enough for the carbonation to be complete, especially at 20*C for 11 days. I have a beer that is pretty much fully carbed after 5 days primed at the rate you have used (I know because I mostly used PET bottles).
Next lagers and other beers that are served cold usually need more priming sugar to have some fizz about them when they are served. Half tsp of sugar is OK for ales and low carb beers but you could increase that by 50% - 80%for a lager.
See here
https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/So your options are
- hope it carbs up a little more and if not put it down to experience
- serve it warmer
- if you have used PET bottles unscrew the cap and add more sugar (quickly! especially to avoid foaming)) but do this when the beer is chilled, I suggest you add about 1/4-1/3 tsp table sugar, then allow your beer to warm up again and then allow another 10-14 days in the warm to complete the carbing process.

I decided to take Terry's suggestion and add more sugar to the bottles and have now returned them to my warm room and will leave them there for at least another 10 days. So we'll see what happens after that.
In the meantime I will now handwash all my beer glasses.

Thanks again for all your great advice and information!

 

[neilb]

With you on that one, I remember taking some homebrew to a friend's BBQ and when he brought the pint glasses out I asked if it was ok to go and wash them out, his wife remarked about how clean they were and they'd been done in the dishwasher. My friend said he'll keep his glass as is and I washed mine, I poured the HB from a litre bottle and mine was fizzy and kept a nice head all the way down the glass but my friends looked flat and lifeless, he disappeared after that beer and by some sort of miracle the next beer was fine.

Would this explain why when having a smooth flow John Smith's or Tetleys or Guinness at home, most of the time I can't get either a decent head or for it to last?
I always blame it on the widget in the can!

 

[thebaron1974]

The glass thing has really piqued my interest! I'm going to have to have a couple of beers tonight and wash out one of the glasses and compare! Is it sad I'm a little excited!

 

[Banbeer]

Would this explain why when having a smooth flow John Smith's or Tetleys or Guinness at home, most of the time I can't get either a decent head or for it to last?
I always blame it on the widget in the can!

Yep, my beer glasses haven't seen the inside of a dishwasher in years.

Is it sad I'm a little excited!

As long as no wee came out you're fine.

 

[Edison]

It’s my kind of geeky! It originally stemmed from our dishwasher (and hard water) were clouding some of our glasses. When I began buying nice brewery branded and Belgian beer glasses I wanted to look after them!

 

[neilb]

Yep, my beer glasses haven't seen the inside of a dishwasher in years.

As long as no wee came out you're fine.

That's brilliant mate thankyou