Carbonating beer with bicarbonate of soda

[DamageCase]

Is this a viable way of carbonating beer in the bottle without sediment? I've never minded sediment when drinking at home as it's always settled very well, but it makes transporting the beer all but impossible.

 

[clibit]

Just stick some alka seltzer in it and deal with any possible ill effects at the same time. :thumb:

 

[Maysie]

Just stick some alka seltzer in it and deal with any possible ill effects at the same time. :thumb:

PMSL :lol:

 

[jackthehat]

My Grandmother used to put a little bicarb in with boiled greens to keep the colour. It made them taste quite distinctively awful.

Why not try it and tell us how you get on? My first thought is that it sounds rather disgusting, but without experiment there would be no progress.

 

[DamageCase]

Haha this is sounding a much worse idea now I've thought about it more. I might get a can of some god awful lager, let it go flat and bung it a bottle with some bicarb. That was I'm not wasting good homebrew and it cant possibly taste worse.

 

[PaulCa]

Sodium Bicarbonate and water... and other stuffs in beer.

What you'll get is cabonic acid which will degrade to CO2 and water, with some sodium compounds left over. Really depends on what the sodium reacts with in the beer, but as sodium is not exactly benign it's not recommended. It IS often used for settling the stomach as (like all bicarbonates) it neutralizes acids (producing Sodium Chloride (Salt) when neutralizing hydrochloric acid such as in the stomach). However daily recommended salt intake means dosage of such things needs to be carefully limited.

Calcium bicarbonate might be a better option, good for your teeth and bones :)

 

[Duxuk]

It takes me back to O level chemistry.............acid + alkali = salt + water. It could make it fizzy but also salty and less fruity tasting.
You can buy carb drops. I've never tried tham but plenty of others on the forum always use them in bottles. This could be the solution you are looking for :thumb:

 

[PaulCa]

You can buy carb drops. I've never tried tham but plenty of others on the forum always use them in bottles. This could be the solution you are looking for :thumb:

They are just sugar or malt pills making per bottle dosing easier, they still require carbonation time.

 

[PaulCa]

Bicarbonates will react with the alpha acid, but as to what salt that would produce, god knows.

 

[Dr Mike]

As others have said, bicarbonate only releases CO2 when mixed with an acid. I doubt that beer is acidic enough on it's own to drive off any more than a token amount of CO2. To get enough, you'd need to add bicarbonate and a stronger acid (eg vinegar) in the right amount. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that would taste rank,

 

[PaulCa]

You could...

Use a CO2 reactor and a carbonating cap on the bottles and lots and lots of tubing.

I use one of these to generate CO2 for a fish tank (to help the plants with a carbon source). It amounts to a 2 litre bottle with water, yeast and sugar. It has a PVC pipe comnig out the top and a pressure gauge. The pipe goes into a "gas wash" bottle bubbling up through cold water to remove alcohol vapour. Finally it goes through a needle valve or regulator and produces a supply of CO2 at 2 bar (30PSI). Lasts months.

This would in theory produce a batched supply of CO2 you could use to force carbonate in bottles with lots of tubing or in a keg.

If you don't like waiting on the yeast the same can be achieved using 2 x litre bottles interconnected. Sodium Bicarbonate in one and Citric Acid in the other. Squeeze the acid bottle forces acid into the bicarb. This pressurizes the system with CO2 and stops the flow of acid dead. However if you now take CO2 out of the bicarb bottle (via the same setup as above), the pressure drop causes acid to flow from the higher pressure acid bottle. Pressure can flow back to the acid bottle without passing liquid bicarb by a one way valve well out of the water. So it's a self regulating reaction, the more you use the faster it runs. This set up can instantly produce massive amounts of CO2. The setup is quite important and needs thought through as the cheap chinese reactors have a habit of going runaway and blowing sticky citric acid salts all over the place. These can be bought on ebay / amazon for about £12.

Sodium bicarbonate and citric acid costs about £3 a kilo each and produces about 800g of CO2 per set. The bottle setups are usually limited to 2 bar, but you can always modify the pressure release valve to get more.

 

[Duxuk]

Didn't realise carb drops are just sugar. I thought they were some kind of high tech solution. I sugared 36 bottles in a few minutes today. Cheap as chips and dead easy. I make a funnel out of a sheet of A4. My wife threw away my plastic one to replace it with a stylish stainless steel one. It's completely useless. But looks good.

 

[PaulCa]

Didn't realise carb drops are just sugar. I thought they were some kind of high tech solution. I sugared 36 bottles in a few minutes today. Cheap as chips and dead easy. I make a funnel out of a sheet of A4. My wife threw away my plastic one to replace it with a stylish stainless steel one. It's completely useless. But looks good.

Mix a solution, use a syringe?

 

[jonnymorris]

I assume you're thinking of filtering the yeast out of your beer in the first place?

 

[Bernie]

No, but once people did produce fizzy water with sodium bicarbonate and citric acid; this would alter the flavour for the worse, i think.

 

[Slid]

I make a funnel out of a sheet of A4. My wife threw away my plastic one to replace it with a stylish stainless steel one. It's completely useless. But looks good.

:lol: SWMBO does this sort of thing all the time.

 

[graysalchemy]

I transport my beer every week in the van and never have a problem with it. The key is to age it so that the yeast compacts and stays at the bottom of the bottle. The second trick is to make sure it is crystal clear going into the bottle as well, then the only sediment you will have is the yeast from priming which shouldn't be much. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[oldbloke]

No, but once people did produce fizzy water with sodium bicarbonate and citric acid; this would alter the flavour for the worse, i think.

for beer the obvious acid is MALT vinegar.

maybe not... unless you could guarantee neutralising /all/ the acetic acid.

 

[PaulCa]

I transport my beer every week in the van and never have a problem with it. The key is to age it so that the yeast compacts and stays at the bottom of the bottle. The second trick is to make sure it is crystal clear going into the bottle as well, then the only sediment you will have is the yeast from priming which shouldn't be much. :thumb: :thumb:

Just an aside point. This doesn't always work with plastic bottles. Plastic bottles have expansion pleats at the base and they expand with the pressure of carbonation. So the base is larger when carbonating and the sediment falls to pack in that space. When you open the bottle however the base contracts and can dislodge the sediment. Often you can get the first pour sediment free, but if any CO2 bubbles form under the sediment cake it has been known to float up into the beer and break up.

 

[graysalchemy]

Point taken, also some yeasts don't compact well ie cider yeast but the majority of ale and lager yeasts will given time.

I think if you could use bicarb of soda then someone would have done it a long time ago and this is the first time in all my brewing years that I have heard anyone wanting to attempt it.