Campden tablets

[RoomWithABrew]

Cl - is not the same as chlorine.

 

[peterpiper]

@peterpiper
Can you supply the rest of your water report?
My water report basic as it is below
View attachment 90532

Shows Cl 10

This is not the same as chlorine or chloramine but ionised.
Your water Cl could be due to NaCl or MgCl or CaCl and this is not what the sodium metabisulphate neutralises.
@peebee knows more about this than me.
Otherwise you'd need to add a LOT of sodium metabisulphate to the "light" Burton water profile I use for five points ale.
View attachment 90533
Half a campden tablet per 25 litres will neutralise the chlorine or chloramine any excess will react with DO. But do remember the Na will affect your salt balance. Brewfather will account for this.

Links to scottish water data for Assynt (Loch Glass) :
Chloride/chlorate/chlorite https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/-/m...202306/Water-202207-Assynt-Last-12-Months.pdf

Summary (enter postcode IVfour sevenDJ) Water Quality Search - Scottish Water

Hardness (row Assynt) https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/-/m...Water-Quality/060623WaterHardnessData2022.pdf

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Wish my water report was as detailed.

Use the ion numbers from this report ( the mean values) in your brewing software or water calculator.

You do not need to neutralise the Cl ions with sodium metabisulphite.

 

[peebee]

Wish my water report was as detailed. ...

It's detailed for sure. It's displayed as a pile of festering mish-mash just like I was ranting about in another thread the other day.

What ordinary folk are supposed to make of it is well beyond me. And no "free chlorine" so can't use the report to estimate amount of metabisulphite to use. But doesn't need accuracy. Most probably doesn't need any (as @Clarence said). A bit of a tablet perhaps in 30L? 1/4 tab? Certainly no need for a whole one.

But back to that report. The "relevant" bit:

Loads of perfectly useless "Hardness" stuff. But notice the first two columns (Calcium and Magnesium) aren't in their "Hardness" guises. No? Well they're not. I think it's done like that to prevent the Public making any sense of it. Let me fix it:

Calcium, 4.01mg/l. Multiply by 2.5 ... 10.03mg/l as CaCO3. . Magnesium 0.59mg/l. Multiply by 4.1 ... 2.42mg/l as CaCO3. Add 'em together ... "Hardness", 12.45mg/l as CaCO3. It'll be slightly more (loads less than 1mg/l more) 'cos I've only counted Ca & Mg. Hey, their figure is only 12.43! Maybe because they are using different measuring techniques, probably at different times. And does the report mention that? (Well, I did say it was a festering mish-mash ... were you fooled by it?). Forget all the detail in this paragraph, you don't really need it.


When I wrote that "Defuddler" spreadsheet I did it to help homebrewers out of the hole they were digging for themselves. I never imagined it would uncover the blinding clap-trap these water companies were putting about.

 

[peterpiper]

It's detailed for sure. It's displayed as a pile of festering mish-mash just like I was ranting about in another thread the other day.

What ordinary folk are supposed to make of it is well beyond me. And no "free chlorine" so can't use the report to estimate amount of metabisulphite to use. But doesn't need accuracy. Most probably doesn't need any (as @Clarence said). A bit of a tablet perhaps in 30L? 1/4 tab? Certainly no need for a whole one.

But back to that report. The "relevant" bit:

View attachment 90567
View attachment 90568

Loads of perfectly useless "Hardness" stuff. But notice the first two columns (Calcium and Magnesium) aren't in their "Hardness" guises. No? Well they're not. I think it's done like that to prevent the Public making any sense of it. Let me fix it:

Calcium, 4.01mg/l. Multiply by 2.5 ... 10.03mg/l as CaCO3. . Magnesium 0.59mg/l. Multiply by 4.1 ... 2.42mg/l as CaCO3. Add 'em together ... "Hardness", 12.45mg/l as CaCO3. It'll be slightly more (loads less than 1mg/l more) 'cos I've only counted Ca & Mg. Hey, their figure is only 12.43! Maybe because they are using different measuring techniques, probably at different times. And does the report mention that? (Well, I did say it was a festering mish-mash ... were you fooled by it?). Forget all the detail in this paragraph, you don't really need it.


When I wrote that "Defuddler" spreadsheet I did it to help homebrewers out of the hole they were digging for themselves. I never imagined it would uncover the blinding clap-trap these water companies were putting about.

Well, at least I can't taste any Magnesium in my CaCO3.

But does seem daft to claim total Ca, is less than Ca amount present in CaCO3!

 

[peebee]

Well, at least I can't taste any Magnesium in my CaCO3.

But does seem daft to claim total Ca, is less than Ca amount present in CaCO3!

Excellent! I wish more brewers would be picking out the ludicrous nature of "Water Hardness"! Instead, some use "Hardness" to try and improve their beer. In my spreadsheet I start describing the "Foetid Mire", my depository of all such things, with "Down here all is not what it seems". Don't forget to have your bar of soap handy to explore it some more.

 

[Frisp]

Potassium metabisulphate is much better. But often more difficult to get. So are you sure?

Question on Sodium v Potasium Metab. are the dosing rates similar for Clorine / Chloramines ? does potasium metab have any knock on effect re salt balances?

 

[MashBag]

Yes w/w much less than sodium met. What's the bigger question?

 

[Frisp]

Yes w/w much less than sodium met. What's the bigger question?

thinking about switching to KMB from SMB for de chlorination, chasing down the homebrew whiff.

 

[MashBag]

..is it the metabisulphate part that is important rather than the potassium vs Sodium?

Potassium metabisulphate is the premium product, it is more expensive to manufacture. It delivers sulphur and leaves little aftertaste. The wine industry only use sodium met for cleaning/fumigation not as an additive.

 

[MashBag]

thinking about switching to KMB from SMB for de chlorination, chasing down the homebrew whiff.

Do you have a problem that needs fixing?

 

[Frisp]

thinking about switching to KMB from SMB for de chlorination, chasing down the homebrew whiff.

also I just put this on my "whats my infection " post

Flippin eck! I think I know what ihas happened and its not an infection
(please feel free to correct my thinking here)
Last time I did AG water treatment wasnt the thing it is now. and I just used to throw a campdent tablet in to deal with the chlorine

NOW THIS TIME ROUND I bought a bag of Sodium metabisulpate and sought advice from the interweb on dosage. stupidly I took the first thing I found as gospel...

further research shows that the weight of a campdent tablet is roughly 0.4 to 0.5g so I should only need 0.2 to 0.25g for 25 L..
NOT the 1/2 to 3/4 a teaspoon as per the first article I stumbled on...

I think what I tasted was sulphite overdosing...

 

[Frisp]

Do you have a problem that needs fixing?

apart from my possibble overdosing with SMB im just looking to fine tune things

 

[MashBag]

apart from my possibble overdosing with SMB im just looking to fine tune things

AMS & DWB then, but I wouldn't (& don't) use any SMB or PMS unless you specifically identify a problem.

 

[Frisp]

AMS & DWB then, but I wouldn't (& don't) use any SMB or PMS unless you specifically identify a problem.

im only using SMB or Pmb as our water is heavy in choramine.. probs about 0.25g in my liquor (35L brewzilla )

 

[The Baron]

If you use Peckham Spring bottled water make sure you use a campden tablet

 

[MashBag]

im only using SMB or Pmb as our water is heavy in choramine.. probs about 0.25g in my liquor (35L brewzilla )

Same question really, is it a problem or a perceived problem?

 

[Frisp]

Same question really, is it a problem or a perceived problem?

Id rather not add sulphates but the issue is real. Unfiltered water has a strong swimming pool whiff . I put our drinking / kettle water through 3xinline 10" charcoal filters to combat chemical tastes in my tea.. My mate worked at the treatment plant and he tells me they add Chlorine and generous quantities of ammonia to combat bacteria from the huge amount of matter running off the mainly peat catchment area.

But the quantity of chloramine left after filtering the chlorine out is unknown . So I may do a small 10L extract lager ( have the making in the drawer) with DMS to see whether I get TCP in the finished beer.

 

[MashBag]

Id rather not add sulphates but the issue is real. Unfiltered water has a strong swimming pool whiff . I put our drinking / kettle water through 3xinline 10" charcoal filters to combat chemical tastes in my tea.

Absolutely agree with that.

My philosophy had always been around does it taste OK out of the tap. If "no" treat it.

IMO tea is a mini mash and read correctly will give you a few clues about the water you have.

Edit: shocking phone typing

 

[Frisp]

Absolutely agree with that.

My philosophy had always been around due it taste OK or off the tap. If "no" treat it.

IMO tea is a mini mash and read correctly will give you a few clues about the water you have.

Even with filtering our tea is drinkable but has a slight "off ' to it.. which makes me think the filters dont 100% nail it or the chloramines are still present.

A few months back the mains was off for a couple of days and we bought spring water from the supermarket, the tea was a different class.. As our mains water is low on minerals (Ca 11, Mg 1, Na 5, Cl 5, So42 19, Hco3 4) it has to be the chlorine / chloramine causing the slight off flavourin the tea.