Buying kegs, what else should I buy?

[Omega]

I intend to start storing my ales in 19 litre kegs to use my fermenter more often. I intend buying couple of kegs from The Malt Miller. What should I buy along with kegs so that I could serve from kegs? At the moment I think buying:

1. floating beer keg dip tube with filter
2. Spundy - 1 per keg and maybe
3. additional tap so that I have a tap per keg
4. Check valve to prevent liquid ingress into Regulator

I already have Complete Complete Dispense Set Up from The Malt Miller (regulator, premium party tap, gas lines and John Guest push fit adapters) and full CO2 bottle. I assume I can use party tap to transfer the ale from fermenter (I have Apollo 20 L Unitank) to kegs. And I can use my CO2 pipes to pressurise the kegs

Regarding carbonating the drink, sorry for the basic question, but I want to get it correctly - this site recommends the pressure per drink and temperature Digital carbonation table . So, for example, if I need to carbonate IPA, then I had better place the keg into the fridge to lower the temperature (let’s say to 5 Celsius) and then add CO2 (11.69 psi, so I can do slightly above it to avoid overcarbonating, most likely will go for 12-15 psi), it won’t take long to get the right pressure, 3-10 minutes maximum, and place back into the fridge. I do not need to have a constant supply of CO2 gas - I do not want placing CO2 bottle into my fridge. Will it work? I can check the pressure and carbonate again after a few hours, but suspect pressure should not drop much.
Thanks

 

[Brew_DD2]

I don't think you need items 1 and 2. Spunding valves are used for fermenting under pressure. Only go for a floating dip tube if you plan on keg hopping (imo).

For carbonating you need to leave the CO2 attached for a week or so to achieve carbonation. There are faster methods such as burst carbonation which are worth looking into. The beer will carbonate much quicker a cold temperatures.

I personally leave my CO2 attached at all times, but you need to be really confident of having no leaks. It's not much fun going to pour a beer and realising you've lost a whole tank of gas.

 

[LeeH]

Agreed on the floating tube, you can serve perfectly bright beer without . They are very good in the Fermzilla though.

 

[Omega]

I don't think you need items 1 and 2. Spunding valves are used for fermenting under pressure. Only go for a floating dip tube if you plan on keg hopping (imo).

For carbonating you need to leave the CO2 attached for a week or so to achieve carbonation. There are faster methods such as burst carbonation which are worth looking into. The beer will carbonate much quicker a cold temperatures.

I personally leave my CO2 attached at all times, but you need to be really confident of having no leaks. It's not much fun going to pour a beer and realising you've lost a whole tank of gas.

About floating dip - I am concerned that there will be still some sediments in the keg and floating dip may help with it. Maybe I am overly cautious? The less kit the better for me, so I won't buy it if it is redundant
And another thought about carbonating - I am using pressure fermenter, so my beer should be quite well carbonated when I transfer it to kegs, so do I need to carbonate it a lot? I guess I could make pressure of 18psi instead of recommended 12 and then check on a regular basis using a Spundy (attach and then remove). Wonder if I lose much gas if I transfer beer using a handheld tap...

 

[Brew_DD2]

About floating dip - I am concerned that there will be still some sediments in the keg and floating dip may help with it. Maybe I am overly cautious?
And another thought about carbonating - I am using pressure fermenter, so my beer should be quite well carbonated when I transfer it to kegs, so do I need to carbonate it a lot? I guess I could make pressure of 18psi instead of recommended 12 and then check on a regular basis. Wonder if I lose much gas if I transfer beer using a handheld tap...

Any sediment drops out in the cold and will be emptied on first pour. First half pint or so is murky, then you'll have clear beer. Do you really get much carbonation when pressure fermenting? I might be wrong, but given the temps that we ferment at, I wouldn't have thought that CO2 would dissolve particularly readily. I would still recommend looking at a carbonation chart.

I would do a closed transfer if I was you. Uses very little gas.

 

[Omega]

Any sediment drops out in the cold and will be emptied on first pour. First half pint or so is murky, then you'll have clear beer. Do you really get much carbonation when pressure fermenting? I might be wrong, but given the temps that we ferment at, I wouldn't have thought that CO2 would dissolve particularly readily. I would still recommend looking at a carbonation chart.

I would do a closed transfer if I was you. Uses very little gas.

Thank you - it looks like there is not need for a floating dip
I would think there is a lot of carbonation because I happens naturally inside the liquid and the pressure is high enough to activate pressure release valve - I installed 15 psi, but I can also have 10 and 25 psi
Also thinking about closed transfer - as I understand, I only need a hose with John Guest push fitting and connect to keg. And another hose to connect keg to my fermenter so that I do not lose CO2 once I start the transfer

 

[Brew_DD2]

Thank you - it looks like there is not need for a floating dip
I would think there is a lot of carbonation because I happens naturally inside the liquid and the pressure is high enough to activate pressure release valve - I installed 15 psi, but I can also have 10 and 25 psi
Also thinking about closed transfer - as I understand, I only need a hose with John Guest push fitting and connect to keg. And another hose to connect keg to my fermenter so that I do not lose CO2 once I start the transfer

I'd check out this chart on carbonation. CO2 isn't particularly soluble in beer at fermentation temperatures.

 

[Omega]

I'd check out this chart on carbonation. CO2 isn't particularly soluble in beer at fermentation temperatures.

If I read it correctly, 2.57 psi at around 20 Celsius is a moderate pressure. And the table gets to about 5 psi... I always hit 15 psi with natural carbonation in pressure fermenter while fermentation is happening, but only because I use 15 psi pressure release valve (PRV), I am confident I can reach 25 psi if I put relevant PRV

 

[Brew_DD2]

If I read it correctly, 2.57 psi at around 20 Celsius is a moderate pressure. And the table gets to about 5 psi... I always hit 15 psi with natural carbonation in pressure fermenter while fermentation is happening, but only because I use 15 psi pressure release valve (PRV), I am confident I can reach 25 psi if I put relevant PRV

The carbonation level is measured in volumes. If you want a beer to be carbonated to say 2.2 volumes you'd need consistent pressure of around 23psi @20c, but only around 10psi @7c. You will not get your 2.2 volumes instantly either. The carbonation happens over time.

I'm no expert on pressure fermentation, but I don't think you want to be fermenting at 23psi. You also definitely do not want to be relying on PRVs to regulate your pressure. You'll want a spunding valve for that.

 

[Brew_DD2]

This is a decent video to demystify the process. There is loads of good stuff, and some not-so-good stuff on YouTube.

 

[Omega]

The carbonation level is measured in volumes. If you want a beer to be carbonated to say 2.2 volumes you'd need consistent pressure of around 23psi @20c, but only around 10psi @7c. You will not get your 2.2 volumes instantly either. The carbonation happens over time.

Thank you - I had to remind several things from school physics, I find brewing makes me remind a lot of things I studied long time ago, which is great. Carbonation depends on temperature, pressure and gas-liquid surface - the less temperature and the more the surface and pressure the faster the process will be. This also means the pressure should gradually reduce as CO2 is dissolving in beer. This is the reason why many recommend to keep supplying CO2 gas constantly. However, pressure fermenting means the beer is already carbonated as explained on the video, so I only need to transfer the beer (using closed transfer) and it is done :). And I need to keep the right pressure for the temperature to get the right level of carbonation - this sites suggests it should be 15-25 psi at room temperatures for British Style Ales, I can get it in Apollo and have the right PRVs Will My Beer Be Carbonated After Pressure Fermenting?

 

[Brew_DD2]

Bear in mind that pressure fermenting will suppress esters, which are very important to British styles, you might want to reconsider how much pressure you are fermenting under.

Again, I would not recommend trusting a PRV to regulate the pressure. They are designed as a fail-safe. If you get a blockage or it doesn't engage, you've essentially got a fermenter bomb. Get those spunding valves back on your list if pressure fermenting is something you're keen to do.

 

[Omega]

Bear in mind that pressure fermenting will suppress esters, which are very important to British styles, you might want to reconsider how much pressure you are fermenting under.

Again, I would not recommend trusting a PRV to regulate the pressure. They are designed as a fail-safe. If you get a blockage or it doesn't engage, you've essentially got a fermenter bomb. Get those spunding valves back on your list if pressure fermenting is something you're keen to do.

Yes, it does suppress off flavours, to my knowledge, but people who tried my drinks found them great
And thank you for suggestion about Spundy - you are right, it is worth having a backup option, I will set it up just below 25 psi (it is quite accurate - it shows 14-16 psi when I use 15 psi PRV).

 

[Omega]

Has anyone seen this? Will give it a go if natural carbonation isn’t enough as I drank half of my ale from fermenter

 

[Omega]

By the way, I tried this carbonation method. Well, slightly different one - attach CO2 and roll the keg on the floor for 5 minutes. It worked! Ale and beer were carbonated and then I put them into the fridge to cook. I drank it with a few guests and they all liked it
So, fast carbonation works and I will stick to it now