Burco boiler simmerstat

[Chiparawe]

I personally don’t think there is a need when setting the SP to 102 (or similar) will do the same job. Let us know how you go

Will do. I have a 60l kettle to fall back on should all else fail but that defeats my goal of going from a 3 vessel setup to the 2 vessel Kettle RIMS system I was aiming for

 

[bobukbrewer]

my burco has no simmerstat now as I took out the wires - so it is just a heater, the power to it comes from an electronic voltage controller so I can have a full rolling boil, or a gentle boil, or just a few background watts to maintain mash temperature................

 

[Chiparawe]

my burco has no simmerstat now as I took out the wires - so it is just a heater, the power to it comes from an electronic voltage controller so I can have a full rolling boil, or a gentle boil, or just a few background watts to maintain mash temperature................

This was what I wanted to do. I’d use the PID to recirc my mash and then unplug from the PID and boil using a voltage controller. Do you have a picture you could share of the voltage regulator and the boiler wiring ?

 

[bobukbrewer]

the boiler has live to one side of the heater and neutral to the other with of course suitable earth connection.
This cable has a 13 amp plug on it that plugs into a "mains socket" which is fed from the triac type voltage controller. I have used it like this for over 10 years. ( I think it was described as a phase controller)

 

[entertheflagon]

Ok so I think I’ve got the gist of what’s going on here. Do you have any pictures of the element and “simmerstat” as I’ve never heard of one of those before.

Plus @BeerCat is right. This isn’t a problem with your PID or the power it pulls. And it sounds like it’s unlikley to be your SSR. But more like this “stat” or the thermal cutout protecting the whole unit. I’m assuming in it’s normal life this unit isn’t designed to boil rather than keep water piping hot circa 80-90oC not 100+.

It's worth remembering that water boils at 100 C but wort is a sugar solution and will be sometwhat hotter , depending on gravity.

 

[entertheflagon]

View attachment 17902 View attachment 17903

Ok right so I suggest if your boiler is as per your picture this is what you need to do.

Disconnect L1 N1 and E1 (as per the picture) at the end points shown. The other arrows is where they are going to the element in the bottom of your boiler.

You then get an in-line RCD unit like the one in the picture and you then connect the live, neutral and earth to the RCD.

REMEMBER EARTH (GREEN AND YELLOW) WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE ALWAYS CHECK AND MAKE SURE THE BOILER BODY AND THE EARTH TO THE RCD ARE CONNECTED TOGETHER THROUGH THE BODY OF THE BOILER AND HEATER. So you may have to loop an extra earth wire to make sure the body of the boiler is connected correctly.

You can then connect the other side of the RCD to the “power out” side of the connections from your SSR that your PID is switching.

I am assuming that you have a seperate temp probe connected to your PID and inserted in the boiler to measure your boiler temp.

Hopefully that should do it for you and bypass your simmerstat.

IF YOU ARE UNSURE THEN PLEASE ASK AS ELECTRICITY KILLS!!

A slight variation on your scheme might be to use the same SSR the PID is switching to be controlled by a PWM boiler controller (something like the Pritchard circuit using a 555 chip and a pot if you know it ) to control the boil manually with the PID turned off.
I'm putting a PID on an older Burco, 10 gallon, tin coated copper just now to control the hot liq and to double up as a temp controlled fermenter tank but if I were to use it for boil too, that's the way I'd go.

 

[Chiparawe]

Thanks guys. At least it answers my original question about bypassing the simmerstat. I had originally thought of using an SCR to control the boil and I might just go with that. Lots to research though now you guys have given me food for thought.

 

[Gerryjo]

This may be of use and not badly priced..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/1735657216...4%26rvr_ts%3Df2b76fdf1680ac1f4c57965affed8ac3

 

[AdeDunn]

I have a switched circuit that diverts around my PID for when I boil, and a power regulator to control the boil (which can also be used during the mash, as I find running at 30% or so reduces overshoot when the PID pulses). I'm only running a 2.5Kw, 10 Amp, element though, you'd probably need a meatier power regulator than mine for a 3kw (although I know of folks who have used the same one, but never over 80% as they overheat, I ran it at 75% last brew day boiling approximately 22 litres of wort). At this point, the PID is just a glorified thermometer, same when I cool.

Maybe there isn't a need, but heh it works for me. lol One day though, I want to upgrade my panel to a SmartPID.



Boil switch is the 3 position switch on the left, mash switch is the 3 position switch on the right (with power regulator, without power regulator). The red switches are main power, and a switch to cut power to the element NOT the panel. The small switches are 12v switches, 1 for pump control, 1 that isolates the ssr from the PID.

 

[entertheflagon]

I have a switched circuit that diverts around my PID for when I boil, and a power regulator to control the boil (which can also be used during the mash, as I find running at 30% or so reduces overshoot when the PID pulses). I'm only running a 2.5Kw, 10 Amp, element though, you'd probably need a meatier power regulator than mine for a 3kw (although I know of folks who have used the same one, but never over 80% as they overheat, I ran it at 75% last brew day boiling approximately 22 litres of wort). At this point, the PID is just a glorified thermometer, same when I cool.

Maybe there isn't a need, but heh it works for me. lol One day though, I want to upgrade my panel to a SmartPID.

View attachment 17954

Boil switch is the 3 position switch on the left, mash switch is the 3 position switch on the right (with power regulator, without power regulator). The red switches are main power, and a switch to cut power to the element NOT the panel. The small switches are 12v switches, 1 for pump control, 1 that isolates the ssr from the PID.

Nice scheme there.
My old burco has a 3 position switch built in to switch the elements to give 2k8 kw, 1.2kw or 515 watts but I'd still use a regulator for finer control so I could use all the elements and share the heat across the bottom evenly.
Using the triac switched reg off ebay that was shown, I'd make sure there was a fan working on that heat sink though.

 

[Chiparawe]

I have a switched circuit that diverts around my PID for when I boil, and a power regulator to control the boil (which can also be used during the mash, as I find running at 30% or so reduces overshoot when the PID pulses). I'm only running a 2.5Kw, 10 Amp, element though, you'd probably need a meatier power regulator than mine for a 3kw (although I know of folks who have used the same one, but never over 80% as they overheat, I ran it at 75% last brew day boiling approximately 22 litres of wort). At this point, the PID is just a glorified thermometer, same when I cool.

Maybe there isn't a need, but heh it works for me. lol One day though, I want to upgrade my panel to a SmartPID.

View attachment 17954

Boil switch is the 3 position switch on the left, mash switch is the 3 position switch on the right (with power regulator, without power regulator). The red switches are main power, and a switch to cut power to the element NOT the panel. The small switches are 12v switches, 1 for pump control, 1 that isolates the ssr from the PID.

I like this. The geek (can you have a 61 year old geek) in me wants to build my this. The geek just happened to buy a bigger project box a couple of weeks ago with the intention of doing a 2 PID system. Should be fun trying to figure out the wiring on this bad boy.

 

[bobukbrewer]

just keep it simple - I turn up the wick for fast boil and down a bit for gentle boil and to almost zero when mash temp of 68 deg C achieved..............no flashing lights......no feed back loops ........

 

[AdeDunn]

Heh if you have the money Chiparawe, and have an inner geek, google SmartPID, seriously! If at some point I have the cash to spare, you can guarantee that's the direction I will go in... Recipe memory, timers etc, in my OWN control panel!

 

[entertheflagon]

https://uk.banggood.com/REX-C100-11...tm_campaign=pla-gbg-tools-pc&cur_warehouse=CN
This is on offer till Monday,ridiculously cheap, I've ordered a couple for the hell of it.
One thing to note though is the k type sensor, not ideal for the ranges we need but I thought I' use them for a kiln if I couldn't hack them for a pt100.
But the relay's worth the 7 quid!

 

[BeerCat]

https://uk.banggood.com/REX-C100-11...tm_campaign=pla-gbg-tools-pc&cur_warehouse=CN
This is on offer till Monday,ridiculously cheap, I've ordered a couple for the hell of it.

Indeed it is ridiculously cheap! Also can be used like an stc1000.

 

[Chiparawe]

https://uk.banggood.com/REX-C100-11...tm_campaign=pla-gbg-tools-pc&cur_warehouse=CN
This is on offer till Monday,ridiculously cheap, I've ordered a couple for the hell of it.
One thing to note though is the k type sensor, not ideal for the ranges we need but I thought I' use them for a kiln if I couldn't hack them for a pt100.
But the relay's worth the 7 quid!

I have a couple of Rex PIDs but use an inkbird ITC 100VH in my control panel with a pt100 probe.

 

[Chiparawe]

Heh if you have the money Chiparawe, and have an inner geek, google SmartPID, seriously! If at some point I have the cash to spare, you can guarantee that's the direction I will go in... Recipe memory, timers etc, in my OWN control panel!

I remember a year or so ago looking at this but then you may as well buy the grainfather connect controller for less than £100. I’ve thought about going down the pi route or maybe arduino but only because I stepmash a lot. I brew Belgian trippels and quadrupples but not often enough to justify. I’ve seriously thought about clearing the brewshed and getting a grainfather or one of the cheaper alternatives but I’m too much of a mad scientist at heart and half the fun is teaching my brew dogs new swear words when something I’m working on doesn’t quite go to plan. Needless to say their range of swearwords runs to four languages and is getting longer by the day

 

[entertheflagon]

I have a couple of Rex PIDs but use an inkbird ITC 100VH in my control panel with a pt100 probe.

The inkbird is obviously going to be more linear at mash temps but I couldn't resist the pull for 7 quid with the SSR, thought I'd see if I couldn't do something with them.
Only downside is the k type probe is more useful at higher temps. I've got some CTD46 types with PT100's for better use on a rims
What do you use those rex types for?

 

[entertheflagon]

Indeed it is ridiculously cheap! Also can be used like an stc1000.

Probably the stc is more useful, being more accurate at lower temps, I picked a couple of these REX things up for the price of the relays I wanted, if they don't work out I'll not be bothered, just use one on a heat treatment kiln.

 

[Chiparawe]

The inkbird is obviously going to be more linear at mash temps but I couldn't resist the pull for 7 quid with the SSR, thought I'd see if I couldn't do something with them.
Only downside is the k type probe is more useful at higher temps. I've got some CTD46 types with PT100's for better use on a rims
What do you use those rex types for?

I don’t at the moment. It’s pretty hit and miss what you get when you order them. The first one had a limited number of connections so you couldn’t use a pt100 and the second one had an inbuilt relay so you couldn’t use an ssr. I managed to bypass that but by that point I’d got the inkbird so the 2 rex’s are waiting for inspiration. I’ve got an old 60l poly kettle wit 2 kettle elements so might go all mad scientist on that. I also have an old still that uses a pressure cooker as it’s boiler so may experiment with that and then sell it on if it works.