Burco boiler simmerstat

[Chiparawe]

morning all. I haven’t brewed in a while as my 30l burco packed up. I’ve now fitted a new simmerstat and yesterday did a Timothy Taylor Landlord cline. My system is a kettle RIMS using a 47l cooler as mash tun and the burco as kettle/RIMS and recirculate using a solar pump with an ink bird itc100 PID controlling the temps. I have a thermowell in the burco with a pt100 probe wired to the PID.
All went well until the boil. I set the inkbird to manual and with 28.5 litres in the burco got to a rolling boil in around 30 minutes and that’s when my problem started. The simmerstat just wouldn’t maintain the boil and would cycle on and off constantly. Absolute nightmare.
What I need to know is if I could bypass the simmerstat and wire directly to the PID to control the mash and the boil? I’ve tried my friend google with no luck. Any help would be appreciated

 

[BeerCat]

On my buffalo there is a sensor on the underneath which i moved to the side. Had no problems at all. Some photos would help. This is a common problem.

 

[Chiparawe]

On my buffalo there is a sensor on the underneath which i moved to the side. Had no problems at all. Some photos would help. This is a common problem.

Thanks BeerCat. That’s the thermostatic control. Mine uses a simmerstat which doesn’t use a sensor. I want to bypass the whole thing and just use the PID to control the burco rather than the simmerstat.

 

[Gerryjo]

morning all. I haven’t brewed in a while as my 30l burco packed up. I’ve now fitted a new simmerstat and yesterday did a Timothy Taylor Landlord cline. My system is a kettle RIMS using a 47l cooler as mash tun and the burco as kettle/RIMS and recirculate using a solar pump with an ink bird itc100 PID controlling the temps. I have a thermowell in the burco with a pt100 probe wired to the PID.
All went well until the boil. I set the inkbird to manual and with 28.5 litres in the burco got to a rolling boil in around 30 minutes and that’s when my problem started. The simmerstat just wouldn’t maintain the boil and would cycle on and off constantly. Absolute nightmare.
What I need to know is if I could bypass the simmerstat and wire directly to the PID to control the mash and the boil? I’ve tried my friend google with no luck. Any help would be appreciated

Your problem is your inkbird is only rated to 10 amps whereas your burco is looking to pull 13 amps for the 3kw element it has.
A PID controller shall work though would use in conjunction with a solid state relay to control your supply on the boiler element.
Under voltage issue causing the simmerstat to fault as the inkbird is not designed for anything more than 2kw within safe use.

 

[Chiparawe]

Your problem is your inkbird is only rated to 10 amps whereas your burco is looking to pull 13 amps for the 3kw element it has.
A PID controller shall work though would use in conjunction with a solid state relay to control your supply on the boiler element.
Under voltage issue causing the simmerstat to fault as the inkbird is not designed for anything more than 2kw within safe use.

I’m using the itc 100 which is a PID. It’s connected to a 40amp SSR. That’s not the problem. The problem is the simmerstat. I plugged the boiler directly into the socket for the boil and still couldn’t maintain a rilling boil

 

[Chiparawe]

 

[Chiparawe]

 

[BeerCat]

The PID is definitely not the problem as they have at least a 25amp SSR. A common fault on these type of boilers is them cutting out when there is a load of **** on the bottom. I dont think that can be your problem though as you are recirculating. Personally i would not and don't use the PID when boiling i just unplug it and haver the boiler on full.
On my buffalo boiler its a round piece of metal attatched to the bottom plate with a screw. All i did was unscrew it and tape it on the side.
This video might help you. at 2.06 you can see the sensor on the bottom right.



Edited

 

[An Ankoù]

morning all. I haven’t brewed in a while as my 30l burco packed up. I’ve now fitted a new simmerstat and yesterday did a Timothy Taylor Landlord cline. My system is a kettle RIMS using a 47l cooler as mash tun and the burco as kettle/RIMS and recirculate using a solar pump with an ink bird itc100 PID controlling the temps. I have a thermowell in the burco with a pt100 probe wired to the PID.
All went well until the boil. I set the inkbird to manual and with 28.5 litres in the burco got to a rolling boil in around 30 minutes and that’s when my problem started. The simmerstat just wouldn’t maintain the boil and would cycle on and off constantly. Absolute nightmare.
What I need to know is if I could bypass the simmerstat and wire directly to the PID to control the mash and the boil? I’ve tried my friend google with no luck. Any help would be appreciated

I had exactly the same problem with my Burcos, I had to replace the element, but could no longer get a roiling boil. Bought a brand new one. I think it was a Buffalo this time, and had the same problem so sent it back. Got a gas ring with three concentric rings and three separate taps and haven't looked back since. The Old boilers are now demoted to heating sparge water.

 

[Chiparawe]

The PID is definitely not the problem as they have at least a 25amp SSR. A common fault on these type of boilers is them cutting out when there is a load of **** on the bottom. I dont think that can be your problem though as you are recirculating. Personally i would not and don't use the PID when boiling i just unplug it and haver the boiler on full.
On my buffalo boiler its a round piece of metal attatched to the bottom plate with a screw. All i did was unscrew it and tape it on the side.
This video might help you. at 2.06 you can see the sensor on the bottom right.



Edited

Yep I’ve seen the videos an they would be relevant if my burco has a thermostatic controller but it uses a simmerstat which doesn’t use a sensor. The simmerstat works by cycling for a set period depending on the position of the control knob. What I’m trying to find out is if anyone has totally bypassed the thermostat/simmerstat and used a PID to control temperature - sort of like a grainfather but without the programs. The PID will maintain a boil if it’s set to manual instead of auto but I’m really not sure how you would control the temp in manual so you maintain a rolling boil.

 

[Chiparawe]

I had exactly the same problem with my Burcos, I had to replace the element, but could no longer get a roiling boil. Bought a brand new one. I think it was a Buffalo this time, and had the same problem so sent it back. Got a gas ring with three concentric rings and three separate taps and haven't looked back since. The Old boilers are now demoted to heating sparge water.

Yeah mine did exactly the same. Brand new element and new simmerstat and suddenly no rolling boil. I may just use it with the PID as a kettle RIMS and use my old 60 litre poly kettle for boiling. I’m trying to cut back from 3 vessel to 2. If this carries on I might just get a brew devil or hopcat or something similar

 

[BeerCat]

Yep I’ve seen the videos an they would be relevant if my burco has a thermostatic controller but it uses a simmerstat which doesn’t use a sensor. The simmerstat works by cycling for a set period depending on the position of the control knob. What I’m trying to find out is if anyone has totally bypassed the thermostat/simmerstat and used a PID to control temperature - sort of like a grainfather but without the programs. The PID will maintain a boil if it’s set to manual instead of auto but I’m really not sure how you would control the temp in manual so you maintain a rolling boil.

My apologies for my dsylexic speed reading. Perhaps @Hoddy can give you some advise.

 

[Chiparawe]

My apologies for my dsylexic speed reading. Perhaps @Hoddy can give you some advise.

No worries. Thanks for the help

 

[Hoddy]

No worries. Thanks for the help

Ok so I think I’ve got the gist of what’s going on here. Do you have any pictures of the element and “simmerstat” as I’ve never heard of one of those before.

Plus @BeerCat is right. This isn’t a problem with your PID or the power it pulls. And it sounds like it’s unlikley to be your SSR. But more like this “stat” or the thermal cutout protecting the whole unit. I’m assuming in it’s normal life this unit isn’t designed to boil rather than keep water piping hot circa 80-90oC not 100+.

 

[Hoddy]

Ok right so I suggest if your boiler is as per your picture this is what you need to do.

Disconnect L1 N1 and E1 (as per the picture) at the end points shown. The other arrows is where they are going to the element in the bottom of your boiler.

You then get an in-line RCD unit like the one in the picture and you then connect the live, neutral and earth to the RCD.

REMEMBER EARTH (GREEN AND YELLOW) WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE ALWAYS CHECK AND MAKE SURE THE BOILER BODY AND THE EARTH TO THE RCD ARE CONNECTED TOGETHER THROUGH THE BODY OF THE BOILER AND HEATER. So you may have to loop an extra earth wire to make sure the body of the boiler is connected correctly.

You can then connect the other side of the RCD to the “power out” side of the connections from your SSR that your PID is switching.

I am assuming that you have a seperate temp probe connected to your PID and inserted in the boiler to measure your boiler temp.

Hopefully that should do it for you and bypass your simmerstat.

IF YOU ARE UNSURE THEN PLEASE ASK AS ELECTRICITY KILLS!!

 

[Chiparawe]

Excellent. This is exactly what I was after. Yep the probe is just below the sight glass in the other photo. I’m ok with electrics. Let’s just say I’m scared enough of it to be very very careful. Many thanks for that.

 

[Chiparawe]

@Hoddy just one question. Using the PID in manual mode would enable me to get the kettle up to a boil but once there how would I be able to control it to a rolling boil?

 

[Hoddy]

@Hoddy just one question. Using the PID in manual mode would enable me to get the kettle up to a boil but once there how would I be able to control it to a rolling boil?

To be honest I wouldn’t bother putting the PID into Manual for your boil. I would just leave it in auto and just raise the SP to 101 (or in and around that, try a bit of trial and error to get the boil roll you want) because the PID will automatically cycle the SSR and be way more power efficient (and cost) at maintaining the boil you need.

 

[Chiparawe]

To be honest I wouldn’t bother putting the PID into Manual for your boil. I would just leave it in auto and just raise the SP to 101 (or in and around that, try a bit of trial and error to get the boil roll you want) because the PID will automatically cycle the SSR and be way more power efficient (and cost) at maintaining the boil you need.

Thanks mate. I did consider a scr or rheostat wired in and switched when I change to manual then dial that down once I hit boil so I can lower it to a rolling boil but I’ll give yours suggestion a go.

 

[Hoddy]

Thanks mate. I did consider a scr or rheostat wired in and switched when I change to manual then dial that down once I hit boil so I can lower it to a rolling boil but I’ll give yours suggestion a go.

I personally don’t think there is a need when setting the SP to 102 (or similar) will do the same job. Let us know how you go