Bru'n water water input help!

[welly3]

Hey all,

I'm trying to create a water profile and am using Bru'n Water. I've used it successfully before in other regions but I'm now brewing in a new place and the water report (from their actual supply) is a bit more limited than I've used before.

Report is as follows:

What is missing that it seems Bru'n Water requires is sodium and whether the Nitrate value is Nitrate NO3 or NO2.

The water report was received from Murphy and Son who I've seen mentioned on various home brewing forums. I've been doing some basic water additions and obviously I've a lot to learn about it but wanted to at least get my profile sorted for a brew session on Friday.

Cheers all!

welly

 

[strange-steve]

The nitrate reported there will be NO3, so just enter it as is. Regarding sodium, it seems a little odd to me that Murphy's don't provide that figure, but just enter everything else into Bru'n Water and then adjust the sodium until you have a balanced (more or less) report. Somewhere around 40ppm seems about right.

 

[welly3]

The nitrate reported there will be NO3, so just enter it as is. Regarding sodium, it seems a little odd to me that Murphy's don't provide that figure, but just enter everything else into Bru'n Water and then adjust the sodium until you have a balanced (more or less) report. Somewhere around 40ppm seems about right.

Thanks Mr. Strange. I shall give it another go with that in mind!

 

[mabrungard]

The nitrate reported there will be NO3, so just enter it as is. Regarding sodium, it seems a little odd to me that Murphy's don't provide that figure, but just enter everything else into Bru'n Water and then adjust the sodium until you have a balanced (more or less) report. Somewhere around 40ppm seems about right.

The sodium test is fairly expensive and its a cost-saving move by Murphys to not provide that test. However if the other results are competent and assuming the cation/anion imbalance is a result of the missing sodium content, you can do what is suggested above. It should be close enough.

 

[welly3]

Thanks for your help so far! I think I must be reading this incorrectly but this is what I'm entering based on the report provided. Seems like it's off!

Any advice? I've used water reports in other cities previously and have never had this problem. All the data was provided by the water authorities, this report just seems to be lacking a few elements which might be the cause. Of course, I don't fully understand the figures I'm working with (although I'm working on understanding them!) which doesn't help I'm sure. What I'd like is to get a water profile I can work from to get my water additions right and in the meantime get to understand what's going on.

Cheers!

 

[henteaser]

From the water report, I think you should be looking at something more like this in BruNWater, however I've used SS's suggestion of 40ppm for sodium to make the "Water report unbalanced" warning go away.

Where is the water source? A few suppliers have a public water profile report you might find to get your Sodium figure.

 

[mabrungard]

Welly, you used the wrong values for bicarbonate and carbonate. As Henteaser presents, the proper values are derived directly from the alkalinity value using the conversion calculator that provides the relative amounts of bicarbonate and carbonate that are related to your water's pH.

While the 40 ppm sodium value may not be exact, its close enough for brewing use. The free version doesn't tell you how close the anion and cation sums are to each other since that may be too much info for the beginning user. But the supporter's version reports both the anion and cation totals so that you can assess how close they are. That would be useful in this case for back-calculating the sodium content. I wouldn't worry about it too much since the difference is probably only a few ppm.

 

[welly3]

Hi Martin,

Thanks very much for your advice. I've actually moved to a new area and have a new water report which seems to be complete, however I'm still getting a "Water Report is unbalanced" message.

I've attached a screen capture and the water report, I wondered if you could find a bit of time to have a quick look? I guess there is something fundamental I'm missing. That said, I used Bru'n Water in Sydney, Australia and entered the values (as far as I could tell) in the same way as I have done below but never saw the "water report is unbalanced" message.

Thanks again!

 

[mabrungard]

Your problem is that the water report doesn't actually provide you with an Alkalinity value. You have plugged in the Hardness value which is also reported in "as CaCO3" units into the Alkalinity conversion tool. The Hardness and Alkalinity values are not likely to be the same unless the water has no Permanent Hardness and no sodium. Since the water has sulfate and chloride, it does have Permanent Hardness. So, you can't do the calculation that you did.

If you were using the Supporter's version of Bru'n Water, it would report data such as the Total, Temporary, and Permanent Hardness values. Those are left off the free version so that people are less intimidated by all the information. But that data would allow you to back-calculate the calcium content of the water since the report shows the total hardness and Mg content. Just adjust the Ca content until the total hardness matches the reported value. With the Ca value, you could then estimate what the bicarbonate content is by adjusting the bicarb content until the anion/cation totals are equal (that is shown in the Supporter's version).

While that bicarb value might be correct, its too important to guess at. You should get a Salifert alkalinity test kit to confirm the value or contact the water company to obtain the missing alkalinity value for the water report.

 

[welly3]

Ah, thanks very much Martin. I actually purchased the supporters version a little while ago (but was intimidated by all the information!) I should have another look. Otherwise I might get in touch with Thames Water and ask them if they can provide an alkalinity value as well. Seems like a bit of an omission on their part.

Cheers!

 

[welly3]

Thames Water got back to me with an average alkalinity value for the area, which was 200.8. I've added that to my Bru'n Water profile and the numbers are looking better now!

Thanks for your help Martin!