Brewers yeast?

[cruno]

I am pretty much new to home brewing. Would it be a safe bet to buy a load of Brewers Yeast to use in a multitude of recipies? Or should I get a more specific yeast?

 

[wezil]

Hi to confuse the issue there are many different types of yeast,depending on what your brewing and what you want the yeast to add to the flavour of the finished beer! But you'd be ok for most purposes to get an ale yeast to start with. Try a Ritchies, Youngs or Safbrew or other named dried yeast and rehydrate it before use, this gives it a headstart on the fermentation. (Theres going to be a few replies who disagree) :grin: (to rehydrate let some boiled water cool to about 30-40deg C in a sterilised jar then add your yeast and without stirring leave it for 15min then stir and add a teaspoon of sugar or malt and leave for 24 hours or so at room temp). (you should see tiny bubbles in the jar) Then hey presto a starter ready to go!!! If doing a kit the general thought is that you'd be better replacing the kit yeast (esp if a cheap kit) with one of the alternatives named. And welcome to the forum,happy brewing!! :thumb:

 

[graysalchemy]

Sorry I am going to b the one who disagrees,

and add a teaspoon of sugar or malt and leave for 24 hours or so at room temp

Sugar is a no no :nono: :nono: the yeast switches metabolism to one to process more simple sugars at a crucial stage ie yeast growth. Use Malt extract by all means. :thumb: :thumb:

But personally I have never had the need to rehydrate a yeast it usually gets going with in a few hours and you have high Krausan within 12-24 hrs. :thumb:

 

[pittsy]

+ 1 for grays advise , no sugar for the yeast , good luck with your brewing .

 

[wezil]

It's just what I do, and it works for me! Apparently the all important stage is the first few moments as the yeast is rehydrated and can't control what passes through the cell wall, thus the use of plain water. This can have a negative affect on the amount of living yeast cells per million pitched . ( although this might only be of importance at higher og's) I'll try to find the article that I got this info from and post it later. :

 

[wezil]

http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/06/07/rehydrating-dry-yeast-with-dr-clayton-cone/ Found it!! He might be right, he might be wrong! I hold my hand up to not having done that many brews, so am far from an expert but I've followed this advice and its all gone right so far!!

 

[Dronfieldbrewer]

Sorry mate...sugar is a no no...a spraymalt or DME or maltexract is what you need and nowt else.

Leave the sugar to the bread makers and the like.

Also, if making a starter, like your posting, if in a jar make sure that no nasties can get in so under an airlock will be best or you will likely get some infections in

 

[critch]

richies or youngs arent particularly good yeasts either. lallemand danstar, fermentis, mauribrew(not used these but heard good reports), or if your really posh whitelabs, brewlabs or wyeast (spelling?)

all ritchies and youngs do is split a bulk bag into tiny bags without the handy nitrogen or vacuum packing, not good for the longevity of the yeast

as gray states sugar is a no no on the starter side

mind you some poor quality lme is heavy in corn syrup and caramel!

 

[wezil]

Please give me evidence as to why no sugar, (as I'm getting fed up with unsubstantiated claims on this forum)! and like I said it works for me (but please don't tell my brews as they obviously don't know I use sugar as a starter)! And as for the nasty's, put a lid loosely on the jar.(Or do you have nasty's with mining gear ready to burrow in)? And the evidence to support the yeast quote as well (I am aware that young's etc aren't the best but a hell of a lot of people use them as there easily available)! Again it works for me! You supply the evidence then I'll admit I'm wrong : PS I feel as though there is a lot of down the nose gazing at anyone who doesn't do all grain from a lot of people on here!

 

[oz11]

I don't suppose a teaspoon of sugar will do an lot of harm, but if people see advice to add sugar to yeast starters and begin using large quantities of sugar in starters it will have a detrimental effect on the yeast's ability to breakdown complex sugars, so sugar should be avoided. Stick to rehydrating with water alone, or using malt extract.

Source: Yeast by C White/J Zainasheff

PS No nose gazing, just trying to give best advice for best results. If you can get hold of the above book it's well worth a read. I sourced a copy from my local library.

 

[wezil]

Cheers for having the decency to back a statement up with fact (some on here don't or can't give evidence to prove their right or I'm wrong)! I shall indeed try to track a copy down! And my comment was aimed at starting a culture to be used asap hence the sugar, but yes your right to much would be bad.(so I'm half wrong) As for the nose gazing I can assure you there are some on here that do it! Much as it happens with my other hobby( fancy goldfish). On many forums It runs along the lines of 'when you graduate to a tropical (or the ultimate a marine tank) blah blah', 'Goldfish are for beginners' 'Their to easy to keep' etc.! My last fish was £150 and grew to the size of a grapefruit! And as for breeding them true to type And don't get me started on show standards! Wine and beer judges are a pushover, a kit beer can win a competition, a pet shop goldfish wouldn't even be benched :lol: Oh and cheers again!

 

[graysalchemy]

Wezil I understand where you are coming from the science is correct its just that simple sugars do have a negative effect on the yeast especially at that crucial point,as I explained.

Unfortunately I read a lot and don't always remember where I get the information from nor do I feel it necessary to justify what I post. Some of it comes from books and others what I have gleaned from this forum and the many experienced brewers that we have on here.

:thumb: :thumb:

 

[robsan77]

I personally haven't seen any "nose gazing" here. The experienced brewers are more than happy to give their time and knowledge to help others.
I used to be on a koi forum. It turned out to be a very bitter place and I couldn't stand it.

If someone disagrees with you, don't take it personally (not easy). When giving advice and stating commonly accepted brewing science, its difficult to reference every point every time. And how would it look if everyone did that?

 

[wezil]

What like the commonly held 'belief' about not using scratched fv, because they can harbour bacteria? I questioned this and got a lecture on surface tension and bubbles on bits of plastic! This was rubbish! Surface tension does occur all over a point of contact other than the meniscus, (in that I was wrong), However the bubbles will do what they have to do and join the atmosphere above the meniscus (anyone who's bled brakes by jamming the pedal down overnight can prove this) and for the impatient give em a poke! that's physics! So if the common theory is the steriliser doesn't reach the depth of the scratch because of this, it shouldn't touch any point in the fv! Think about it! And don't just accept common beliefs! After all at one time the earth was thought to be flat!!!

 

[graysalchemy]

Wezil It is proven science not common belief. Simple sugars during the growth phase cause the metabolism to switch meaning that when the yeast does finally sinks its teeth into more complex sugars it struggles resulting in poor attenuation of the beer.

However if you do not wish to believe this then that is up to you.

 

[calumscott]

+1 for the no sugar camp.

If you are building a starter rather than just rehydrating, then it's a wort in the 1.040 range you need. If just rehydrating to get a fast start without actually building a starter then it's plain boiled and cooled water.

I note that the boffin quoted in the article works for Lallemand. The people who own Danstar. Who put the instruction

Sprinkle the yeast on the surface of 10 times its weight of clean sterilzed(boiled) water at 30-35C. Do not use wort, or distilled or reverse osmosis water, as loss in viability will result.

on their packets.

Plain water it is for me. :thumb:

 

[calumscott]

As for the nose gazing I can assure you there are some on here that do it!

Sorry, but I really do take issue with this.

I started brewing about a year and a half ago. With no idea (well, apart from the largely biology based education more than a few moons ago now!). With a 5 gallon bucket, a tin of Youngs Harvest Bitter and a bag of dextrose.

Over the course of that year and a half I have asked reasonable questions, complex and more philosophical questions and downright stupid questions and, without fail they have been answered with good grace, good advice and good well behaved debate not to mention the appropriate level of ribbing for the more brainless ones...

Down the nose gazing? Nope. 18 months of coaching, so I'm now confidently brewing amazing beer.

All down to the good people here.

And I'm afraid I just won't hear a word said against a single one of them.

(Apart from the spammers, I like killing them...)

 

[Aleman]

Except that you do not follow the procedure given by Dr Cone!! Dr Cone says to add the rehydrated yeast to wort after 30 minutes of rehydration. There is no mention of adding it to some sugar for 24 hours before pitching! ! Can you post any references for this procedure?

Much of my information comes from private communication with many authors and brewing experts so as much as I would like to there are times I am unable to give a reference, especially when it is going to be used in a book or magazine article.

 

[graysalchemy]

A little further research on Mr Listermanns website here reveals this

WHY SHOULD I AVOID GLUCOSE, TABLE SUGAR, HONEY, APPLE JUICE, ETC. IN MAKING YEAST STARTERS?
Brewer's yeast has been selected for its ability to grow well in malt-based wort and produce pleasant by-products. In particular, yeast prefer to ferment maltose because it is the largest fermentable constituent in wort. Growing your yeast up in a non-malt environment can affect the health and you can get a disordered fermentation and possible off flavors in your beer. Growing up in a high glucose environment, for example, can result in selection in favor of respiratory mutants that cannot properly ferment maltose. As an analogy, consider how unhealthy you and your decendents would be if you were asked to live (and reproduce!) on a diet of nothing but soda pop.

 

[Good Ed]

no nose gazing just solid advice, whether you take it or not is up to you. it doesn't matter whether kit or AG or whatever, the yeast is the most important process, why not do it to best practice.

from Yeast by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff

"Use all-malt wort for starters. The sugar in the starter needs to be maltose, not simple sugar. Yeast grown exclusively on simple sugars stop making the enzyme that enables them to break down maltose. Since brewing wort is mainly maltose, fermenting it with yeast grown on simple sugar results in a beer that will not attenuate properly."

"While most commercial brewers rehydrate their dry yeast before pitching, many homebrewers just sprinkle the dry yeast on top of their wort. Technically the beer will ferment if you pitch enough nonrehydrated yeast, but you are not giving the yeast an opportunity to make the best beer possible. Skipping rehydration kills about half the cells pitched."

We should all strive to make the best beer possible, or why bother