Bramley Apple Cider?

[Proper English Brew]

I have a large bramley apple tree and I was wondering if it would be still possible to make cider out of them?
I know they are quite acidic. Would I just cut out the malic acid when making it?
Would I have to back sweeten? I really dont have a clue what to do...
Any help from and experienced cider maker would be much appreciated?
:grin:
Thanks,
Mike

 

[graysalchemy]

I would give calumscott a pm he has access to some interesting data about apple juice which he is studying he may will probably be able to give some pointers but I would probably say that it will not need malic but will still need the tannin as they are classified as sharp apples but not bitter(sharp).

:thumb:

 

[calumscott]

BOO! :)

So, the Bramley's Seedling...

From the data I've been gathering it has Malic Acid at an average 1.07% and Tannin at 0.10%.

http://www.cider.org.uk/part2.htm gives the "ideal" cider juice at 0.40% Malic Acid and 0.20% Tannin.

By my calculations (which are pretty rough, admittedly, it's been a while since I did proper chemistry) you are going to need a teaspoon per gallon of Tannin to bring that up to the 0.2% that you would want, obviously you're fine for Malic Acid.

You are going to end up with a cider which I reckon will be right up my street - really really sharp but if you can get a decent malolactic fermentation (back to you, GA!) on the go with that level of Malic you should get a lovely roundness behind it...

 

[calumscott]

Oh, and please keep us posted on how it goes, I was considering doing a bramley cider this year but I'll be moving house so it'll be too much of a hassle and I'll do another TC instead and try the bramley next autumn. :thumb:

 

[graysalchemy]

To get your MLF you need to mature it for 3-4 months if not more preferably over winter , in bulk. It will grow a white film over the surface which will make you wonder WTF is happening but as long as it tastes like cider it will be fine.

Enjoy

:

 

[calumscott]

I've just done some reading on Malic and Lactic acids... interesting stuff and has sorted my understanding of what's what with MLF.

Here are a few highlights:

- Malic acid is a bit bigger molecule-wise than lactic acid. Basically malic has a 4 carbon atom chain at it's heart, lactic only 3.
- Several bacteria (and now some GM yeasts) can produce a MLF, but we're most interested in Lactobacillus.
- MLF basically involves the bacteria gaining energy through chopping off the end of the malic acid chain to produce CO2 and lactic acid.
- Lactic acid is far more "mild" than Malic acid which is what manifests itself in the "rounding" of the flavours of a well matured cider.
- There are other chemical changes performed by these organisms at the same time, most notably the conversion of citrate (citric acid) to acetate (acetic acid or vinegar to you and me) again, another sharp to mild acid conversion, but more crucially the process by which diacetyl will be produced and that's where your "buttery" flavours come in.

I was convinced of the benefits of MLF before but now, understanding a little of the chemistry, it is totally obvious why you would want this process to happen.

: to the little bacteria!

 

[calumscott]

Actually, back on the OP's topic...

Given the high levels of Malic Acid in Bramleys I would say that you absolutely *need* to get a good aging on the cider and ensure than you get MLF after primary fermentation is through otherwise it'll be really quite tart!

Backsweetening is one of those :hmm: questions.

You might not need to if you get a good MLF, it might take the sharpness right down to somewhere nice. I think for a first effort I wouldn't, and if it came up still to tart, add a splash of apple juice when serving which I'm told is really nice. Then you have a reference point for next year's crop.

 

[liampenn]

Sounds great, I have a friend who grows bramley apples in thier garden. I might borrow some and make some cider outt of them!
Whats 'MLF' though?

 

[calumscott]

MLF is not the attractive mother of two next door...

...it's MaloLactic Fermentation.

 

[graysalchemy]

:lol: :lol:

Yup don't go googling MLF :lol: :lol:

 

[liampenn]

:rofl:

 

[rich27500]

But if you do don't forget delete history

 

[Proper English Brew]

As a so called wine/cider making "noob" what is Malolactic fermentation?
Thanks for your replies!
Mike :grin:

 

[graysalchemy]

MLF is a process which takes place during or more liklely after the main ethanol fermentation. Bateria mainly Lactobacillus convert the malic acid into the more rounded less harsh lactic acid. Also it produces alot of aroma's associated with scrumpy type ciders ie the farmyard twang.

All you need to do is bulk age the cider for 2-3 months and you will see a white film develope (which is the bacteria). My last lot was left for 10 months and tastes fantastic. :thumb: :thumb:

 

[Big Dave]

If you are not into the chemistry lark this is a quick solution.
Generally aim for a balance of bitter, sweet and sharp.
For a balanced Cider use 70% Bramleys, 20% Coxs and 10% Crab apple.
Leave for at least 3 months before trying.

My 1st attempt used Bramleyts, Cox, Spartan and Crab.
Decided do not need the Spartan next time - only put them in cause I was given a load!!
After 3 months bottles were sparkling clear, drinking now and its just right.

 

[Little London Vineyard]

I have a large bramley apple tree and I was wondering if it would be still possible to make cider out of them?
I know they are quite acidic. Would I just cut out the malic acid when making it?
Would I have to back sweeten? I really dont have a clue what to do...
Any help from and experienced cider maker would be much appreciated?

Thanks,
Mike

I too have a Bramley tree. I have made cider from it too. It is very tart on its own so I mix it 50:50 with strong bow or anything like it. The cider is then fine. Good luck.