Bottle priming yeast choice

[shocker]

Until recently it had never occurred to me that one may choose a different bottle priming yeast to the one used for primary fermenting .Simple and obvious ,I know ,but it never really crossed my7 mind that you could choose a yeast for priming for its specific attributes .How thick am I ?

Recent discussions here about commercial brewers doing the above made me start to think .As I generally rest brew and fine them right out I usually drop a couple of grains of all purpose yeast into the bottle with the required sugar ,relying on whatever general purpose I have on hand like formula 67 or youngs and have been happy enough with the results ,given that I wasnt expecting miracles ,just a little fizz .

Now I am wondering whether a bottom fermenting lager strain would be better ,or one chosen for its compacting properties ,perhaps one that gels ,almost ,to allow for worry free pouring .

Any experiences or observations ? Given that I have pointed out that I had been "happy enough" and that its not the end of the world .Just musing ......

 

[phettebs]

I generally use S04 because of it's bottom compacting ability. Makes for a nice stable yeast cake at the bottom of each bottle.

 

[shocker]

Thanks ,thats just the kind of thing I was asking....any more ?

 

[graysalchemy]

I brew with nottingham anyway but again it compacts very well in the bottle I never have a sediment problem (as long as the bottles have matured for a couple of months)

 

[phettebs]

I should add that I don't often re-yeast a beer. The only time I do is after a long (> 2 months) secondary or if the OG was around 1.075 or higher and the yeast is tired.

 

[Good Ed]

You shouldn't need to add yeast at priming, even if you have used finings (which also is'nt necessary) there will still be millions of yeast cells in the beer, after priming with sugar just leave at room temperature for 4-7days before putting somewhere cooler to condition. How well a yeast sticks to the bottom of the bottle is termed as flocculation, and all yeasts have varying properties. Some people prime with other things other than sugar such as DME or honey, but have never tried it myself. I'm not sure why commercial brewers use yeast to bottle condition beers, unless the have pasturised it first?

 

[shocker]

Would this be true of an apple/sugar/water cider type brew that has been racked ,fined and settled in a secondary for weeks until there is no CO2 production at all ? The not needing priming yeast thing ?

Years ago brewing decent quality beer and ale kits (some may consider this an oxymoron !) I did sometimes find that a brew that had been fined and well settled would not bottle condition without a grain or two of yeast and some sugar .Indeed I did have some ,according to old notes that I had primed some and not others and the non primed bottles had spoiled or were at best unpleasantly lifeless ,beyond the stillness of a real ale .

Thanks for all the replies people ,please keep them coming ,theres lots of good info within this group and Im glad to hear from you .

GA ,when you say you brew with Nottingham ,does that mean you rely on the initial pitch of yeast ?Or do you use the same again as a prime ?

 

[Good Ed]

Would this be true of an apple/sugar/water cider type brew that has been racked ,fined and settled in a secondary for weeks until there is no CO2 production at all ? The not needing priming yeast thing ?

I would bow to expert opinion on this, I'm sure someone will be along with their experiences. I understood that because ther are so many yeast cells in your wort you're not going to get rid of them all by fining, and that given that you keep the bottles at around 20C for 4-7 days after priming with sugar, you should be ok.

 

[shocker]

Thanks Ed ! :

 

[Good Ed]

Just done a bit of research from GW's book

"Beer Fining; This is the act of removing yeast and some other bits and bobs from finished beer. Finings are usually added to the cask after the beer has matured for a while, particularly if auxillary finings have been used beforehand. It has to be said that most beers using a good yeast will clear down without fining, given time. The main reason for fining is to speed up the clearing process or to deal with difficult yeast. It is not normal to fine beers destined for bottling because the yeast needs to pack down firmly on the bottom of the bottle, whereas fined beers tend to have 'fluffy bottoms' which makes the beer difficult to pour without disturbing the yeast and clouding the beer. Isinglass or gelatine can be used as a fining agent. Isinglass is the superior product when fresh, and is the stuff that commercial breweries use."

So watch out for Fluffy Bottoms

 

[shocker]

What a thing to say to an ex sheep farmer ! :shock: :? :lol:

 

[PintofPride]

I'm not sure why commercial brewers use yeast to bottle condition beers, unless the have pasturised it first?

This is precisely why commercial breweries add yeast for priming. Nearly all commercial breweries pasturise their beers.

Good thread by the way!

PoP

 

[RobWalker]

Good ed - a lot of companies do it to safeguard their yeast too, and use a different strain when bottling so it's not harvested by competitors..

 

[graysalchemy]

I seemed to have missed this thread for a few weeks.

Shocker asked if I reseeded my beer with nottingham the answer is no even if I have fined my beer there is enough in it to prime the bottles.

With regards to cider/apple juice brews I have never needed to the yeast is still there. When it becomes a problem is when you have higher abv's and it has been allowed to sit for afew months. Having said that I have bottled a barley wine which sat in a secondry for 8 weeks and has conditioned without re seading. Some times I allow some of the settled. Yeast to go back into the beer when I am transfering into a bottling bucket.

The only time I did reseed was with a wow which I was going to make sparkling the champagne way. I added some champagne yeast for two reasons, one I thought the original yeast may not have been up to it and secondly champagne yeast floculates well making it easier to disgorge.

Cheers

AG