Bottle conditioning sediment

[Clarence]

Does anyone know how to stop the sediment that collects in the bottom of the bottle when conditioning with sugar?
Just wondered if there’s anything you can add at the time of brewing or priming it?

Yes there is a way, but it's very labour intensive. This is the way some ciders are also made. Gospel Green cider used this process when I was there some many years ago. I see no reason why it shouldn't be used for beer. Good luck.



What Is the Méthode Champenoise Process?
The entire secondary fermentation process takes about two full weeks.

1. Tirage: First, the grapes are harvested, pressed (in a process referred to as la cuvée), and the resulting grape must is transformed into alcohol through one round of fermentation. The winemaker then adds a mixture of sugar and yeast cells called liqueur de tirage to the still wine.
2. Bottling: Next, the base wine is decanted into bottles and fitted first with a crown cap like a bottle of beer (not a cork). The bottles are then racked horizontally in pupitres, or wooden racks.
3. Riddling, or remuage: Developed in the 1800s by Madame Clicquot, riddling refers to the daily quarter-turn the racked wines receive in order to unsettle and rotate the sediment—a cloudy byproduct of yeast called lees—in the bottle.
4. Disgorgement, or dégorgement: In the final phase, bottles are flipped upside down, to encourage the lees to settle in the neck of the bottle. Disgorging allows the winemaker to remove the lees after its job is done, without sacrificing the pristine sparkling wine left behind: Most do this by freezing only the neck, and quickly extracting the solids.
5. Dosage, or liqueur d'expédition: With the lees removed, the bottles are in need of a small top-off. This is referred to as the dosage, a mixture of sugar diluted in wine. Levels of dosage influence both the dryness and/or sweetness on the palate. Some winemakers prefer to skip this step entirely.

The homebrew company in Ireland provide caps specifically made to help with stage 4 of the process.

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.u...tic-undercap-green-200-p-3934.html?cPath=2_24

 

[sifty]

I poured a beer tonight, from a 500ml bottle into a 250ml tulip glass. First glass was crystal clear, second a bit gluggy from bottle being set upright in between pours.

Think I either need a jug or bigger glasses...

 

[moto748]

+1 to moto748. I prefer bottled. I still use Irish Moss (same idea as protofloc etc); condition for 2 weeks; rack into separate vessel (rather than bottling from FV); and pour (carefully) into jug not directly into glass. Sediment never an issue - there is a tiny bit left in the bottle.

A man after my own heart, that is pretty much what I do. As Cwrw666 says, the yeast you use is a factor too, some are more 'flyway' than others.

As far as process is concerned, I think a big one for me was giving the boiled wort a good stir, and leaving it for a couple of hours before transfer to the primary FV, rather than opening the tap and releasing the boiling wort into the FV straightaway. That would mean more sediment than you really want is getting into your beer. I've found, probably not surprisingly, that doing this cascades down into clearer beer and less sediment in bottles.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Yes there is a way, but it's very labour intensive. This is the way some ciders are also made. Gospel Green cider used this process when I was there some many years ago. I see no reason why it shouldn't be used for beer. Good luck.



What Is the Méthode Champenoise Process?
The entire secondary fermentation process takes about two full weeks.

1. Tirage: First, the grapes are harvested, pressed (in a process referred to as la cuvée), and the resulting grape must is transformed into alcohol through one round of fermentation. The winemaker then adds a mixture of sugar and yeast cells called liqueur de tirage to the still wine.
2. Bottling: Next, the base wine is decanted into bottles and fitted first with a crown cap like a bottle of beer (not a cork). The bottles are then racked horizontally in pupitres, or wooden racks.
3. Riddling, or remuage: Developed in the 1800s by Madame Clicquot, riddling refers to the daily quarter-turn the racked wines receive in order to unsettle and rotate the sediment—a cloudy byproduct of yeast called lees—in the bottle.
4. Disgorgement, or dégorgement: In the final phase, bottles are flipped upside down, to encourage the lees to settle in the neck of the bottle. Disgorging allows the winemaker to remove the lees after its job is done, without sacrificing the pristine sparkling wine left behind: Most do this by freezing only the neck, and quickly extracting the solids.
5. Dosage, or liqueur d'expédition: With the lees removed, the bottles are in need of a small top-off. This is referred to as the dosage, a mixture of sugar diluted in wine. Levels of dosage influence both the dryness and/or sweetness on the palate. Some winemakers prefer to skip this step entirely.

The homebrew company in Ireland provide caps specifically made to help with stage 4 of the process.

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.u...tic-undercap-green-200-p-3934.html?cPath=2_24

I tried a cheap attempt at this using brine from the freezer to freeze the neck in the degorgement step. But it wasn't cold enough to do the job. See my post here Sparking wine

 

[Brewnaldo]

The OP could try CBC1 bottling yeast, it kills the brewing yeast and flocculates hard. You only need a wee pinch in a full batch to carbonate and it leaves a tiny amount if you get it right.

 

[Dutto]

…….

Think I either need a jug or bigger glasses...

Suggest you get bigger glasses, BUT ban SWMBO (or equivalent) from touching them!

Mine broke a 750ml glass that I inherited from my brother and then a 750ml crystal tankard that I bought as a replacement!


My SWMBO could vandalise a rolled-steel-joist and I suspect that many others have the same attitude to what they class as “Boys Toys”!
:hat:

 

[sifty]

I actually found one this morning. Dug out an old Duvel branded tulip stemmed glass that perfectly holds a 500ml bottle (volume tested).

Now my go-to glass for my evening tipple...

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I poured a beer tonight, from a 500ml bottle into a 250ml tulip glass. First glass was crystal clear, second a bit gluggy from bottle being set upright in between pours.

Think I either need a jug or bigger glasses...

Or a pewter tankard!

 

[sifty]

Or take my reading glasses off. Puts everything in a lovely soft focus...

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Or take my reading glasses off. Puts everything in a lovely soft focus...

That's the benefit of cataracts.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Yes there is a way, but it's very labour intensive. This is the way some ciders are also made. Gospel Green cider used this process when I was there some many years ago. I see no reason why it shouldn't be used for beer. Good luck.



What Is the Méthode Champenoise Process?
The entire secondary fermentation process takes about two full weeks.

1. Tirage: First, the grapes are harvested, pressed (in a process referred to as la cuvée), and the resulting grape must is transformed into alcohol through one round of fermentation. The winemaker then adds a mixture of sugar and yeast cells called liqueur de tirage to the still wine.
2. Bottling: Next, the base wine is decanted into bottles and fitted first with a crown cap like a bottle of beer (not a cork). The bottles are then racked horizontally in pupitres, or wooden racks.
3. Riddling, or remuage: Developed in the 1800s by Madame Clicquot, riddling refers to the daily quarter-turn the racked wines receive in order to unsettle and rotate the sediment—a cloudy byproduct of yeast called lees—in the bottle.
4. Disgorgement, or dégorgement: In the final phase, bottles are flipped upside down, to encourage the lees to settle in the neck of the bottle. Disgorging allows the winemaker to remove the lees after its job is done, without sacrificing the pristine sparkling wine left behind: Most do this by freezing only the neck, and quickly extracting the solids.
5. Dosage, or liqueur d'expédition: With the lees removed, the bottles are in need of a small top-off. This is referred to as the dosage, a mixture of sugar diluted in wine. Levels of dosage influence both the dryness and/or sweetness on the palate. Some winemakers prefer to skip this step entirely.

The homebrew company in Ireland provide caps specifically made to help with stage 4 of the process.

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.u...tic-undercap-green-200-p-3934.html?cPath=2_24

Those caps are very interesting.
Do they have any advantage over the normal 29mm caps ( for champagne bottles ) with durability etc. I bottle my Saisons and sparkling elderflower in champagne bottles and crown cap them.

 

[Shaft]

Yes there is a way, but it's very labour intensive. This is the way some ciders are also made. Gospel Green cider used this process when I was there some many years ago. I see no reason why it shouldn't be used for beer. Good luck.



What Is the Méthode Champenoise Process?
The entire secondary fermentation process takes about two full weeks.

1. Tirage: First, the grapes are harvested, pressed (in a process referred to as la cuvée), and the resulting grape must is transformed into alcohol through one round of fermentation. The winemaker then adds a mixture of sugar and yeast cells called liqueur de tirage to the still wine.
2. Bottling: Next, the base wine is decanted into bottles and fitted first with a crown cap like a bottle of beer (not a cork). The bottles are then racked horizontally in pupitres, or wooden racks.
3. Riddling, or remuage: Developed in the 1800s by Madame Clicquot, riddling refers to the daily quarter-turn the racked wines receive in order to unsettle and rotate the sediment—a cloudy byproduct of yeast called lees—in the bottle.
4. Disgorgement, or dégorgement: In the final phase, bottles are flipped upside down, to encourage the lees to settle in the neck of the bottle. Disgorging allows the winemaker to remove the lees after its job is done, without sacrificing the pristine sparkling wine left behind: Most do this by freezing only the neck, and quickly extracting the solids.
5. Dosage, or liqueur d'expédition: With the lees removed, the bottles are in need of a small top-off. This is referred to as the dosage, a mixture of sugar diluted in wine. Levels of dosage influence both the dryness and/or sweetness on the palate. Some winemakers prefer to skip this step entirely.

The homebrew company in Ireland provide caps specifically made to help with stage 4 of the process.

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.u...tic-undercap-green-200-p-3934.html?cPath=2_24

That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Clarence]

Those caps are very interesting.
Do they have any advantage over the normal 29mm caps ( for champagne bottles ) with durability etc. I bottle my Saisons and sparkling elderflower in champagne bottles and crown cap them.

In truth, I've never used them since I've never had more than an academic interest in champagny things. I understand, though, that they collect the yeast and make disgorgement a cleaner and easier job. I suppose none if the yeast sticks to the side of the bottle. But I'm only guessing.
Certainly both the crown cork and the underbung are one off- after disgorgement they're replaced by a wired cork.

 

[Kit-brewer]

As for the sediment at the bottom of a bottle, my opinion is that it is part of the living thing that beer is. Carefully pour off to try not to disturb the sediment too much.
Also, I drink from a leather tankard, so I cant see if its cloudy!!

 

[The Baron]

Suggest you get bigger glasses, BUT ban SWMBO (or equivalent) from touching them!

Mine broke a 750ml glass that I inherited from my brother and then a 750ml crystal tankard that I bought as a replacement!


My SWMBO could vandalise a rolled-steel-joist and I suspect that many others have the same attitude to what they class as “Boys Toys”!
:hat:

I have many favourite glasses as they change through the style of beer I drink my old go to is a Worthington Red Shield non nucleated glass which is nice for ales and bitters but SWMBO keeps putting them in the dishwasher when I am not looking against my expressed wishes as it kills the head on beers if not rinsed properly. I await the day one is broken in the dishwasher and if you think WW2 was bad we will see

 

[Jim Brewster]

cold crashing before bottling removes the majority of sediment. If you use a high flocculating yeast it'll stick to the bottom of the bottle rather than transferring to the glass

 

[Agentgonzo]

cold crashing before bottling removes the majority of sediment.

So does time (if you don't have the ability to cold crash). Just leave it a couple of extra days in the primary and it drops nice and clear.

 

[DuncR]

“…a couple of extra day…”! People can die of dehydration in those timescales. But a few days will make the difference

 

[MuckyNeighbour]

Does anyone know how to stop the sediment that collects in the bottom of the bottle when conditioning with sugar?
Just wondered if there’s anything you can add at the time of brewing or priming it?

I’ve started decanting from the primary fermenter to a clean bucket, getting as close as I dare to the sediment and then bottling from there. I still get sediment in the bottles but nowhere near as I do from bottling straight from the primary fermenter.

 

[klaus]

Well I drink the lot ... don't mind the sediment! I notice there's now "cloudy" IPA for sale in shops, and pricey at that. And if I serve to someone cloudy homebrew beer or wine I call it "naturally cloudy" which is generally well received. As consumers we are used to 100% crystal clears beers - which are produced by industrial methods.

What surprised me in Germany is that for wheat beer some connoisseurs make sure they get everything out the bottle, shaking it up in the process. Reason being it's healthy ...