Boiler Automation Electrical Advice Required

[BREWERS DROOP]

Confused.com All I need is to regulate the current to both my 5.5kw elements I.e turn up down and off just like a cooker knob type control.
All my pots have thermometers,so not wanting to confuse things,just something simple.

 

[Hoddy]

Bear with me. I'll have a video done soon. I've got some diagrams now I just need to write some stuff and then get round to recording it. Work (the day job) is being annoyingly time consuming........


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[Rogermort]

Bear with me. I'll have a video done soon. I've got some diagrams now I just need to write some stuff and then get round to recording it. Work (the day job) is being annoyingly time consuming........


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Hoddy, could you perhaps provide a shopping list so that I can get all the bits together?
I'll want to use it in conjunction with a 3kw element.


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[donchiquon]

Confused.com All I need is to regulate the current to both my 5.5kw elements I.e turn up down and off just like a cooker knob type control.

All my pots have thermometers,so not wanting to confuse things,just something simple.

Would something like this do the job?

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

I will ask my electrician, I have to get the stuff so he can wire it all up.Thanks for that

 

[Fil]

for power control ive found resistance controlled ssrs to be very easy and cheap to install, basically a similar device to the ssrs used with pid controllers but instead of using a dc currunt to control the output you use a 500k linear variable resistor (volume control knob) to simply dial up and down the output power, I bought an ebay kit that was slightly overpriced but included a nice sticky back dial as well as the ssr, heatsink, 500k ohm pot (potentiometer)..
I also added an ebay 240v ac Amp/volt meter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CY-VolTag...904532?hash=item4d422fb4d4:g:V~oAAOSwAvJXA2ai

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M5-1-5-10...hash=item3390d172ea:m:mWQ0IMcHuCm_eYNp4rdi1Ug
and the optional display

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-80-300...775157?hash=item51cd8ac6f5:g:64gAAOSwZjJU8C5o

My version

 

[Smileyr8]

Bear with me. I'll have a video done soon. I've got some diagrams now I just need to write some stuff and then get round to recording it. Work (the day job) is being annoyingly time consuming........


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I have come up with a solution also, but will wait to see what you come back with, don't want to steal your thunder especially with you doing a video too.

 

[donchiquon]

Fil - nice build! Very tidy job.

I've just finished rigging up the eBay dimmer to test it on the next brew.

Not quite as impressive! :) I enjoyed eating the ice cream beforehand though!

 

[stpete]

I agree the K types are less accurate, no internal resistor so no compensation for ambient temps. PID is the way forward, yes I tried both. This is my current work in progress.

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

Bear with me. I'll have a video done soon. I've got some diagrams now I just need to write some stuff and then get round to recording it. Work (the day job) is being annoyingly time consuming........


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Any update yet Hoddy??

 

[HebridesRob]

Does the SSR with heatsink attached get hot enough that it needs a fan?

 

[donchiquon]

Does the SSR with heatsink attached get hot enough that it needs a fan?

Good question. Worked fine! 2000w dimmer with a 1600w element. Just warm(ish) to the touch.

I dialled the element down to about 1/8 power and it produced less than 1 degree of temperature overshoot compared to 4-5 degrees on full power.

I may have to (reluctantly) move it out of the ice cream tub into a proper box.

 

[HebridesRob]

Good question. Worked fine! 2000w dimmer with a 1600w element. Just warm(ish) to the touch.

I dialled the element down to about 1/8 power and it produced less than 1 degree of temperature overshoot compared to 4-5 degrees on full power.

I may have to (reluctantly) move it out of the ice cream tub into a proper box.

Good. Thanks!

 

[donchiquon]

I agree the K types are less accurate, no internal resistor so no compensation for ambient temps. PID is the way forward, yes I tried both. This is my current work in progress.

Just thinking about whether my temperature probe is in the best place it could be...underneath the false bottom but probably still too close to the boiler element.

I like the look of your T-fitting with thermowell. What sort of thermowell did you use?

I've got an Inkbird 308 so might have to shop around a bit for a thermowell that would fit the probe....not sure of the best way to secure it inside....

Anyone else using a thermowell on the tap that might work for an inkbird probe?

Thanks!

 

[stpete]

Hi donchiquon, I used one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/sis.html?...h+Detachable+Connector&_trksid=p2047675.m4100 I use a three wire sensor so has compensation for ambient temps, I also use a 40A SSR to drive a 3kw element, yes the heat sink gets hot and i am going to use a small 12v fan. The limitation with temp sensor in T piece from tap is with big grain bill when recirculation slows the temp takes time to adjust. The SSR may get replaced with resistor variable one to lower voltage to element, 3kw is a little high for rolling boil, more control is better.

 

[Fil]

when using a thermowel just ensure the probe end makes good positive contact with the well end. probes have their sensors mounted at the tip copper is better than SS as its 40x 'better' at conducting heat (its coeficient of heat transfer is 40x bigger ..)
and a simple and efficient diy thermowell can be made from flattening out a bit of split copper tube in a vice and soldering it on the end of some tube

 

[stpete]

I glued the probed end into its well with high conductivity thermal glue, usually used for pc chips an heatsinks, look up Arctic silver, use the non electrically conductive type, worked a treat.

 

[ericmark]

I use a MH1210A and the differential on that is 0.1ºC where with the STC-1000 the differential is 0.3ºC. But as said once at heat you don't need that much power. To reduce power there are two ways, either switch on and off or reduce the power, to reduce power again two ways, one is a big resistor in practical terms something like an old convector heater, or a transformer.

What I can say is in the Falklands our batteries were not lasting long and I decided what I needed was distilled water, belco boilers were easy to get hold of, but the output was too much to be able to cool with a simple length of pipe. So I tried powering from 110 volt, we had a large transformer so load was not a problem. I found it simmered nicely and although slow I was producing more distilled water than I needed.

So forgetting about transformers as likely you don't have one to hand, a convector heater same size as boiler is next best thing. I would use two controllers, controller one set at a lower than required temperature feed direct to boiler, controller two set at required temperature and it supplies the convector heater and the neutral of the convector heater is connected to line of boiler so they are in series. So controller one will give you the rapid heat up and controller two will keep the temperature steady.

 

[Smileyr8]

I agree the K types are less accurate, no internal resistor so no compensation for ambient temps. PID is the way forward, yes I tried both. This is my current work in progress.

StPete, I am looking to also go down the PID route with the 3 wire PT100 sensor, but after receiving the device from Ebay REX C100 it was not as advertised i.e. RKC Type with 10 terminals to the rear (arrived with only 7) so was unable to switch to 3 wire type, I have received a full refund and got to keep the REX C100 (but it no use to me). OK enough background lets cut to the chase, where abouts did you get your PID, and how much did you pay?

 

[stpete]

Hi Smiley, I did a similar thing, bought a controller with K type, SSR etc and found it was just not acurate enough had up to 3 deg of drift. My second controller came from Ebay, looked on my ebay but cant find item any more. This was the type I bought https://tinyurl.com/h5s2kut I can't vouch for this or any other ebay seller but thats the make controller I bought, search for cheapest? I also have a spare controller thats pretty useless.