Bohemian Pilsner

[Isolec82]

I have made two Bohemian Pilsners from Greg Hughes' book. One four weeks ago and one i have just kegged - both conditioning at 3c. Both are hazy - protein haze i guess as they both clear on warming. I used 10l of Ashbeck plus 22l tap water so Calcium was about 50ppm. I guessed that they would be slow to clear as the Calcium is low, but i dont think that is the problem unless Calcium also has an effect on Protein coagulation. Would filtering at 1 micron help? I could buy a filter and filter cornie to cornie! But more importantly, what have i done that has caused this!!!

 

[foxbat]

You didn't do anything wrong. It's completely natural to have a chill haze. The Germans call it Kellerbier. If you wait long enough and keep it as cool as possible (weeks maybe more) then it will drop out. Commercial breweries fine and cold-filter to clarify it. I know it's nice to hold up your glass to friends and show how clear it is but with chill haze it doesn't matter as the flavour is unaffected. Ashbeck makes a lovely clean lager, enjoy it!

 

[divrack]

what he said. if you drop them down to 0c and can stand to leave them for a couple weeks more they will likely be clear.
if pilsners were so easy to make everyone would be doing it... wait... I mean make right.
I usually get impatient and tap them before their best and then kick myself at how much better the last third of a keg was.

 

[Isolec82]

Thanks foxbat/divrack. Lagers are a relatively new departure for me and i have a party in a months time and was hoping to be able to serve a great clear lager. I will drop my lagering freezer to 0c. It tastes great so if it doesn't clear i will tell them it is Kellerbier and is meant to be like that LOL.

 

[chthon]

Standard time for Bohemian pilsners (Plzen) lagering was three months. Try to find the first episode of Michael Jackson's Beer Hunter.

 

[Isolec82]

On the hunt. The ones on YouTube have been blocked in the uk for copyright issues. We will find it!!!

 

[Saisonator]

I made a pilsner a few weeks ago with Ashbeck. Even after cold conditioning it didn’t clear, I had to use gelatine.
I never had trouble with clearing when using my hard water with acid additions to soften, although it did taste too minerally to use for a pilsner.
I can only put it down to a lack of calcium.

 

[foxbat]

For my Pilsner with 100% Ashbeck I adjusted with 0.11 g/l gypsum and 0.06 g/l CaCl for a profile of Ca: 58, Mg:2, Na:8, SO4:72, Cl:51. I also added 0.23ml/l lactic acid (60%) for a mash pH of 5.3.

Yeast used was WY2308 and it dropped clear in about 4 weeks at 5C (I can't get any lower than that). Gelatine was added to the kegs.

I've never brewed with a profile of less than 50ppm Calcium. I read somewhere that 50 was supposed to be the lower limit so I always aim for that or more.

 

[Isolec82]

For my Bohemian Pilsner, when i added 10l of Ashbeck to 22l of my tap water the Calcium luckily measured out at exactly 50ppm. KH was 102ppm so i brought back the 32l to 20ppm with 13ml of AMS(CRS). Yeast was a Wyeast 2124 starter for the first brew with the second brew being racked straight on to the previous yeast. Both fermented strongly at 12c. I have added no finings to the keg and have them lagering at 0c. Time will tell and will report back.

Foxbat - did you only adjust the ph for the mash water?

 

[BeerCat]

I use the correct water profile (RO water), get a decent coldbreak, cold crash and add finings and i have still had beers that would not clear. Hard to tell exactly why as have crystal beers using bohemian yeast and beers that looked like a NEIPA. I am trying different strains at the moment as i dont care about haze in other beers but i want clear lagers.

 

[foxbat]

Foxbat - did you only adjust the ph for the mash water?

Yes only the mash water, at 6.2pH Ashbeck does not need the sparge water to be adjusted. I only adjust the sparge water when I use a hard alkaline water for brewing a stout.

 

[Isolec82]

Do you think lowering the ph of the sparge water un-necessarily has any effect on efficiency? Why do you use Lactic over AMS - is there a flavour difference?

 

[foxbat]

Do you think lowering the ph of the sparge water un-necessarily has any effect on efficiency? Why do you use Lactic over AMS - is there a flavour difference?

I don't know about the effect on efficiency, @mabrungard probably knows the answer to that one if he's around.

Lactic has no effect on the mineral profile whereas AMS/CRS does in a way that I don't know how to measure so I don't use it. Lactic can have a negative effect on flavour if you use a lot of it - far more than I'd ever use. Brun'water will actually warn you if you go near the taste threshold for lactic. Phosphoric is the best option that has no effect on flavour or mineral profile but I just happen to have a little bottle of Ritchies lactic in the cupboard that seems to last forever.

 

[Isolec82]

I have a bottle of lactic that i have never used - will try it on the next brew - an all Ashbeck Pils!