Bleach as a sanitiser.

[foxbat]

what is beer stone

Calcium Oxalate. Nasty, hazardous chemicals are often used to get rid of it. Prevention is better than cure - two of the minor ingredients in PBW (EDTA and the surfactant) are designed to bind with the ions that form beerstone, preventing it from forming.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

what is beer stone

Beerstone is an aggravating problem in a brewery because it is a stubborn blend of organic and inorganic compounds. Most brewers agree that the best practice is to avoid buildup by using proper cleaning techniques regularly. When beerstone does strike, however, modern brewers can now choose between traditional techniques and some new alternatives.

It’s the greyish-white layer of sediment on the inside of your fermentor. It stubbornly resists your best efforts to remove it. You’re about to climb inside the tank and spend the day with a scraper. It’s beerstone.
Scientifically speaking, beerstone is a precipitate of calcium oxalate and protein. All surfaces in the brewery that come into contact with wort and beer are susceptible to this deposit, but some of the biggest problems will occur in heat exchangers, fermentation vessels, aging tanks, kegs, and beer dispense lines. Some breweries only have to address the problem once or twice a year, but inadequate cleaning regimens can require more frequent attention.

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/removing_preventing_beerstone

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Ha. This debate is getting as entrenched as those about restoring capital punishment, Spurs v Arsenal and the dreaded "B" word. Each to his own, I say.

Hardly surprising when your first post in the thread was "Bleach is the best sanitiser there is. Don't waste your money on Starsan" you based this sweeping statement on a totally different product that didn't work for you why are you surprised members that use it and have had no problems with it have stood up for the product.

 

[Clint]

No doubt bleach works providing you can pin down a consistent supply and properly mix it .. especially with vinegar.
With starsan I use one of those 5/2.5ml double ended spoon you get in kids medicines,fill each side and add 5 litres if water .. done. The spoon is left permanently in my solution in a spare fv with spare pipes etc. Same amount every time..easy.

 

[LED_ZEP]

I only use bleach and sometimes alcohol for sanitising.

There's a thread here that covered this and some other ideas provided by members of the forum:

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/over-1000l-of-steriliser-for-35p.76129/

 

[Drunkula]

In case anyone doesn't know if you're using the no-rinse bleach you've got to make it new every time, it's pretty much useless after 24 hours. I've even had it stored in demijohns and then found mould rafts living in it that look like dead mice.

And it seem counter-intuitive but diluted bleach is far, far more effective than neat. The pH neat is around 12 to keep it stable but lowering it makes it magnitudes more lethal - hundreds of times for acidified bleach.

 

[DavidDetroit]

Some years ago, when I was given all the equipment to make beer, there was a half bottle of Starsan with it so I never considered another sanitizer. Then, after reading much on the sister site, I was scared away from bleach permanently because of the real or imagined risk of getting bleach into the beer. Technically, I don't know how well people follow directions regarding correct ratios when dealing with bleach so both Starsan and a bleach combo could be equal in effectiveness.
With Starsan, the initial cost is high but the bottle lasts for two years or more.

 

[PJL]

I've only ever used bleach, so far without any problems whatsoever. However I live so far away from a brew shop bleach is just an easy option and readily available from the local supermarket.
I've given up on bottles for the most part and use kegs so it's not as much of a neusense having to rinse.

 

[Peter Scandlyn]

@PJL same same, EXCEPT I still bottle, yet don't find it an issue (had about 38 years of practice tho'........)

Aside, notwithstanding the cost v. how long a bottle may last, I look at that product as a prime example of price gouging. (Not that they're alone in the home brew market in that aspect).
There are copycat products out there with same specs at half the price and I have homed in on a product that'll work for me IF I decide to change.

 

[fusi]

... I use a very weak bleach and vinegar mixture as a no rinse sanitiser, following the "recipe" that Charlie Talley (the guy who invented StarSan) described on a Brewing Network radio podcast a while ago ... I've only used it on bottles, because like kelper explains above once you've got a routine it's not too arduous to rinse ... so everything else gets a soak in stronger (but still weak, 10-15ml per ltr) bleach solution, then rinsed before use ... but bottling is arduous enough without having to rinse steriliser out of bottles

The Charlie Talley "recipe" equates to (he explained it in US fl.oz. and US gals) 1.5 mls of bleach, mixed in 1 ltr of water, then 1.5mls distilled (white) vinegar added ... NEVER mix the bleach and vinegar together directly, that's how you make chlorine gas, which is poisonous, always mix in water!!!!!! ... but you need to bear in mind that he was talking about bleach at 5% hypochlorite, and Tesco/Asda/Morrison's Value Thin Bleaches vary from 3.5-1.0% hypochlorite, so read the label and calculate the correct amount ... and for the mix to be effective, it relies on lowering the pH of the mixture (with the acidic vinegar) so you need to use low alkalinity water ... and on the podcast he explained (if I remember correctly) that when mixed like that it is as effective (if not better) than StarSan, with a similar contact time

I've been using it for around 3-4 years now, and can't remember any infected bottles in that time

Hi,
As in my country (Romania) StarSan is not available in local shops and Amazon shipping fees are about 75$, I'm looking for alternatives. Bleach & vinegar solution diluted according Charley Talley recommendations could be a substitute. What I did not understood is: should I rinse or not the solution traces after sanitation? If NOT, had you notice chlorine presence in final beer?
Thanks for answering.