Black Cardamom

[DocAnna]

Cooked a Rogan Josh lamb curry tonight with extra Black Cardamom, which is a spice I really love. It’s a dark musky aromatic spicy taste that is - if it’s ok to say- is a bit sexy. I’d love to make a beer with it as a flavour but up to now have always made beer from a recipe. Wine I’m ok with fiddling with but beer is in many ways more subtle. So I’m looking for advice on how to use aromatic spices in beer.

For cooking you need to scorch the spice in hot oil to release the aroma so I’m thinking of dry frying the spice then adding that to the wort. Any idea of how much or when or... well any advice appreciated

Anna

 

[An Ankoù]

Haven't used or even seen black cardamoms for decades, but I do recall that they're quite different to the green cardamoms I put in everything that could be considered curry. My first thought is, what kind of beer would you want to flavour with this spice? Something dark and a tad sweet, I would think, to accommodate the weird camphory taste. I'm not sure I'd dry roast it first- that's already been done in the drying process and many curry recipes recommend heating the spices in oil before adding the other ingredients- to their detriment, in my opinion. I'd just chuck it in the last ten minutes of the boil. In fact I think I'd cut the seeds out of the the pod and just throw them into the boil. As for quantities, no idea. Never even considered it before, but I'm thinking treat it the same way you would coriander in a wit, for example. Be gentle. You can always add a bit more to the next brew, but you're making beer, not curry.
Try googling it. Here's a start:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1196.0

 

[samale]

Cooked a Rogan Josh lamb curry tonight with extra Black Cardamom, which is a spice I really love. It’s a dark musky aromatic spicy taste that is - if it’s ok to say- is a bit sexy. I’d love to make a beer with it as a flavour but up to now have always made beer from a recipe. Wine I’m ok with fiddling with but beer is in many ways more subtle. So I’m looking for advice on how to use aromatic spices in beer.

For cooking you need to scorch the spice in hot oil to release the aroma so I’m thinking of dry frying the spice then adding that to the wort. Any idea of how much or when or... well any advice appreciated

Anna

I am going to brew a Saison next weekend with cardamom and coriander. It's @Keats recipe. I think he uses 3 cardamom pods

 

[Brew_DD2]

Absolutely adore cardamom, both green and black. Incredibly heady aroma. I'd imagine they'd work great in a Tripel or even a Saison. Would require a very delicate hand, but I'm sure it would be delicious.

Could be worth making a tincture with some Vodka. That way you could dose your finished beer really carefully.

 

[TheOsprey]

I'm hoping to do this Witbier next.

This might be way out there, but maybe the cardamom pods could take the place of the coriander seeds?

 

[DocAnna]

Thank you - I really appreciate this and the reference to spices in saison and wit beer, I can see how black Cardamom could be swapped in for one if the spices. Thinking about these different options I think I’m going to have to experiment with the different ideas. I like the idea of the vodka tincture and as a starter think I might buy some examples of different beer styles that I haven’t already made and add some of the tincture to each to see what works for taste. Could be good could be awful but it will be my first foray into thinking of a beer recipe :)

Anna

 

[terrym]

I think green cardamom would be much better in a beer if you were going to try it. Black cardamom is much more harsh and comes with a bitter taste which might be suited in a curry but not beer. But if you did use it, it would be better to dehusk and just use the seeds.
@An Ankoù - black cardamom is sold in most 'Asian shops' in the UK. It certainly is in my area. You need to prime your next visitor from the UK to bring some over for you.

 

[An Ankoù]

Thank you - I really appreciate this and the reference to spices in saison and wit beer, I can see how black Cardamom could be swapped in for one if the spices. Thinking about these different options I think I’m going to have to experiment with the different ideas. I like the idea of the vodka tincture and as a starter think I might buy some examples of different beer styles that I haven’t already made and add some of the tincture to each to see what works for taste. Could be good could be awful but it will be my first foray into thinking of a beer recipe :)

Anna

You could also go down the route of making half-size batches for your experimental beers. Just a thought; my normal batch is 25 litres, but I've been doing quite a few stove-top brews of 12 litres. Just found a supplier of 6.2 litre fermenters complete with tap and airlock for a very reasonable price and I'm thinking, why not?

 

[Keats]

Here is my cardamom Saison recipe that @Hazelwood Brewery mentions. It is for 20 litres.

4.5kg Pale Malt
15g Admiral @ 60
25g Saaz @ 5
1 teaspoon coriander seeds @ 5
3 green cardamoms @ 5
25g Saaz @ 80 degrees for around 10-15 minutes
1 pack of Danstar Saison yeast

OG 1.052
FG 1.00

ABV 7%
IBU 26

 

[samale]

Here is my cardamom Saison recipe that @Hazelwood Brewery mentions. It is for 20 litres.

4.5kg Pale Malt
15g Admiral @ 60
25g Saaz @ 5
1 teaspoon coriander seeds @ 5
3 green cardamoms @ 5
25g Saaz @ 80 degrees for around 10-15 minutes
1 pack of Danstar Saison yeast

OG 1.052
FG 1.00

ABV 7%
IBU 26

Just as well I looked at that I bought ground coriander. Did you crush the seeds

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Although it's about the various kinds of pepper, this might give you some useful background on brewing with spices : A Dash of Pepper

It's not really the weather right now but I can heartily recommend cardamom icecream, you used to be able to get it commercially but it looks like you now have to make it yourself.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Although it's about the various kinds of pepper, this might give you some useful background on brewing with spices : A Dash of Pepper

It's not really the weather right now but I can heartily recommend cardamom icecream, you used to be able to get it commercially but it looks like you now have to make it yourself.

Cardamom in puddings is magnificent. I love it in rice pudding in particular.

 

[Clint]

I use spices now and then....I think there's a huge difference between black and green cardamom and they give very different flavours. You may get smoke from the black cardamom and more of a medicinal/ menthol taste. The latest black cardamom I have are a mile away from the sometimes shrivelled stuff you can end up with. They are soft, smokey and very resinous...great in a lamb curry but I wouldn't rush use them in a beer...or if I did I'd split a batch and maybe do five litres.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Just as well I looked at that I bought ground coriander. Did you crush the seeds

I used ground coriander because I hadn’t got coriander seeds on brew day. It was fine.

 

[Hagrid]

Not beer related, so apologies this isn’t particularly helpful in this case, but I use green cardamoms in hot chocolate.

1 seed per cup
A dash of nutmeg and cinnamon (actually I say dash, more like a good helping...)
Honey to taste
A spoon of Horlicks
As much chocolate as you fancy
And milk

Chuck it all in, whisk and leave just shy of a simmer for 5 mins.

On the beer front, have you got any spare DJs? Could you make a small batch and tweak it until you’re happy, then scale it up?

 

[DocAnna]

On the beer front, have you got any spare DJs? Could you make a small batch and tweak it until you’re happy, then scale it up?

I like the idea of cardamom with chocolate ... not sure about the Horlicks though... reminds me too much of childhood camping which was the only time I ever seemed to have it. I’ve a couple of DJ’s not filled at the moment so I guess I could try those but I’ve also a 12 litre- ish fermenting bucket I could use which would work well. Right now though I’m going to have a pause since I’ve 2 5 gallon batches of wine that will need bottling this week, and a plum wine that will need strained. So I’ve my hands full - but I’d love to try some of the ideas suggested in the thread

Anna

 

[Keats]

Just as well I looked at that I bought ground coriander. Did you crush the seeds

I just cracked them rather than completely crushing them.

 

[DocAnna]

So I've been doing a bit of research since I posted this question and found blackcardamom when ground can be ridiculously potent. In a pro brewery forum it was quoted as "cardamom 60 Grams (course grind) at 15 minute boil in 8 bbl is enough for you to pick out the exact spice."
So 8 bbl =1309 litres so the amount quoted is 1.05g in 23 litres for flavour!

Ok I'm not willing to risk a whole brew to this amount of spice so I have a plan...
I hope this week to get my winter Wassail beer on ( yes I know it was supposed to be last weekend but it was too busy and a bit ambitious) when bottling it I'm thinking of adding black cardamom to some of the batch. Since I have a tendency of making life complicated, I'm planning on weighing out 0.5g of crushed seed and steeping them in 24ml vodka over the time of the ferment then taking the liquid and adding it as 1ml via a syringe to half the bottles. Could end up being no flavour at all but I'd rather that than overpower the beer.

Anna

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

So I've been doing a bit of research since I posted this question and found blackcardamom when ground can be ridiculously potent. In a pro brewery forum it was quoted as "cardamom 60 Grams (course grind) at 15 minute boil in 8 bbl is enough for you to pick out the exact spice."
So 8 bbl =1309 litres so the amount quoted is 1.05g in 23 litres for flavour!

Ok I'm not willing to risk a whole brew to this amount of spice so I have a plan...
I hope this week to get my winter Wassail beer on ( yes I know it was supposed to be last weekend but it was too busy and a bit ambitious) when bottling it I'm thinking of adding black cardamom to some of the batch. Since I have a tendency of making life complicated, I'm planning on weighing out 0.5g of crushed seed and steeping them in 24ml vodka over the time of the ferment then taking the liquid and adding it as 1ml via a syringe to half the bottles. Could end up being no flavour at all but I'd rather that than overpower the beer.

Anna

Maybe go with regular cardamom and use three pods (crushed) in 23 litres. This is proven as far as I’m concerned. I probably have a bottle of cardamom saison that’s not yet assigned to someone, PM me your address if you’d like to try it?

 

[Clint]

It's not bad...