BIAB partial mash conversion for high gravity beer?

[zombrewer]

Hi guys, this is one for the BIAB brewers... just wondering what the highest gravity BIAB beer you've done is? I have a 40l Buffalo boiler, 4 brews in & not gone much above 1.055 yet. I'm planning on doing a clone of a Nøgne Ø #100 as a wedding beer for my brother... however it has the best part of 10kg of grain in it, so have adapted the recipe to partial mash. Here's the original recipe, no mention of batch size but I assume it to be 20-23l:

Nøgne Ø #100

O.G: 1.097
FG: 1.023
ABV: 10%
Bitterness: 96 IBU
Colour: 52 EBC

Mash time: 90 mins
Temp: 63

Maris Otter: 8.5kg
Wheat malt: 1kg
Chocolate malt: 225g

Boil: 90 mins

Chinook 70g: add at start
Centennial 50g: 15 mins
Centennial 50g: 5 mins
Columbus 50g: Flame out

Protofloc: 15 mins

Danstar Nottingham x 2

Chinook 50g: dry hop

Using Beersmith I have adapted the recipe thusly:

Batch size: 23l
O.G: 1.096
FG: TBC
ABV: 9.8%
Bitterness: 94.7 IBU
Colour: 40.9 EBC
Brewhouse efficiency: 75%

Mash time: 90 mins
Temp: TBC, 63 seems low?

Maris Otter: 5kg
Wheat malt: 1kg
Chocolate malt: 225g
Light DME: 2kg (added 15 mins from end)

Boil: 90 mins

Chinook 50g: whole boil
Centennial 50g: 15 mins
Centennial 50g: 5 mins
Columbus 50g: 30 minute aroma steep @ 80 degrees

Protofloc: 15 mins

Danstar Nottingham x 2

Chinook 50g: dry hop 5 days

Most of this looks about right, apart from the colour... It's got me thinking though as to how much I could push the grain bill up without losing too much efficiency, if at all? I'd prefer to stick as close to the original recipe as possible, but realise BIAB has its limitations... unfortunately no space for a three vessel setup, though it's obviously the ideal one day :

 

[Algernon]

I have done 23 litres of 1.076 which required 9kg of dry grain in my sheet of net curtain. It also required steely determination, burning shoulder muscles and provoked a hitherto unknown desire for a tin of spinach.
It is tasty, but sadly is now the only beer in my collection that I am enjoying, which rather limits my consumption to just the one or I risk hanging in the morning.

 

[Pinchy]

I'll be following this thread closely as i've got a 40L buffalo too for BIAB. I'm very interested to know what the upper limit for this equipment is :thumb:

 

[MyQul]

I generally do maxi-biab (concentrated wort which you dilute in the FV enabling me to do 23-24.5L brews with a 20L pot) my O.G before dilution is usually around 1.070

 

[Duxuk]

The BIAB purists are gonna hate this, but I'll let you into the secret of how to get at least 10% more efficiency. This is especially useful for higher gravity beers. I usually brew 20l in the mid 1050s. Last brew was 4.2kg grain, mainly MO. OG was 1056 at exactly 20l.
What you do is reserve 6l of your starting volume of water. You need to be able to have access to this 6l later at 75-80C. Mash as you usually do then drain your grain bag. Place it in an FV, open the top and add the 6l of water. Give it a damned good stir around. Meanwhile you're heating the bulk to a boil, so it cost you no extra time. Resqueexe the grain bag and add to the bulk. Boil and hop however you wish. Feel smug when you do your efficiency calculation.
Don't listen to those who say "just add more grain". You'll have quite enough grain with this recipe you're planning. In fact I might be tempted to reserve even more than 6l of the starting vol., since you have so much grain. 10 or even 12l would look good.

Best of luck :

 

[pittsy]

You could just do what most belgian beer do , use candy sugar to up the % , cheaper and better imo than using grain only for high % . ( not sugar , candy sugar )

 

[MyQul]

The BIAB purists are gonna hate this, but I'll let you into the secret of how to get at least 10% more efficiency. This is especially useful for higher gravity beers. I usually brew 20l in the mid 1050s. Last brew was 4.2kg grain, mainly MO. OG was 1056 at exactly 20l.
What you do is reserve 6l of your starting volume of water. You need to be able to have access to this 6l later at 75-80C. Mash as you usually do then drain your grain bag. Place it in an FV, open the top and add the 6l of water. Give it a damned good stir around. Meanwhile you're heating the bulk to a boil, so it cost you no extra time. Resqueexe the grain bag and add to the bulk. Boil and hop however you wish. Feel smug when you do your efficiency calculation.
Don't listen to those who say "just add more grain". You'll have quite enough grain with this recipe you're planning. In fact I might be tempted to reserve even more than 6l of the starting vol., since you have so much grain. 10 or even 12l would look good.

Best of luck :

+1

I also do something similar to the above . Doing a sparge and stirring during the mash really upped my effiency after I got crap efficiency on my first biab and googled how to up it

 

[zombrewer]

Interesting, thanks a lot for all the replies! So, sounds like Algernon is currently leading the gravity race with 1.076... out of curiosity, how big is your boiler? I think I'd struggle to fit enough water after losses to get a full batch with that much grain... However if I held back 10l for a sparge as suggested by Duxuk, it could work! As for whether I can lift the bag or not, we'll have to wait and see

I have a sack of MO right now, and do enjoy a challenge, so may give this a go as an AG with the original grain bill, take a reading pre-boil, & only bump up the gravity if it's woefully under... I already bought the DME, but can always use that for starters.

Pittsy, will be giving candy sugar a go at some point in the future, but seeing as I have 20kg of MO as well as the DME, I think I'll try to use what I have this time :thumb:

Thanks again for all the advice guys, will try to post a write-up and a few pics of how I get on :

 

[Duxuk]

Whatever you decide to do, my best tip is to make sure you have a skyhook. Some way of suspending your bag above the liquor. Put a hook into a door frame and tell them you're planning to use it for decorations next Christmas. You'll find an excuse :thumb:

 

[padders]

i know this is not quite what your looking for but i have just brewed an ale using the extract route,and the sg was1072
this worked out to be 8.8% when bottled!, i used 3.5kg spraymalt and 1 kg brewing sugar.
it was a recipie i adapted to make by extract some time ago ,however when i originally put the numbers into beersimith it was using LME,when i came do brew the beer, i forgot and used the same quanantity of dme as lme ,hence the 8.8%abv!

 

[zombrewer]

So, ended up giving it a go as an all-grain today... reserved 10l for the sparge step, ended up with 22l into the fermenter at 1.085! Not the best efficiency, and under the original recipe's gravity, but very pleased with it nonetheless - trying to BIAB such a big beer, and with 215g of hops in there as well, the efficiency was always going to take a hit. And yes Duxuk, lifting the bag was indeed a pain in the arse (well, hands & shoulders)... I was very glad of the punch bag bracket I put up when I first switched to BIAB, don't think I would have managed it solo otherwise! :

 

[Duxuk]

Well done, I'm very impressed by such a high OG ale made by BIAB. Just don't be shy with the dry hopping!

 

[zombrewer]

Thanks, part of the reason I managed to get so high was that I overestimated how much water the grain was going to hold, so ended up with a lot more wort & upped the boil time to 120 mins to increase boil-off... I also just noticed that in my haste to convert the recipe back to AG in Beersmith, I put 8kg of Maris Otter rather than 8.5...so it's possible I could have gone a couple of points higher! Still, really wouldn't have wanted any more grain in that damned bag, so probably not a bag thing :lol:

Padders, good work fella, sounds like a beast :thumb:

 

[Algernon]

70l pot but only brewing 23l brew lengths. I am pretty sure you can get more or less the same OG as any other method, within reason, it simply depends on your capacity for heavy lifting. Punch-bag brackets seem like a fabulous idea, I may well be investing in one once I upgrade from a sheet of net curtain to an actual proper bag.
I have had my fill of high OG beers for a while - I think I am going to focus on 4% ish brews for a while, I like being able to have more than one of an evening without wobbling :-)