Best To Start With ?

[matth]

I realise this has probably already been covered elsewher, but i can't find it so i'd thought i'd just ask.

Typically, is it best to start off (being totally new to brewing) with extract or All grain? I am not interested in kit and all grain appeals to the tinkerer in me - so i can adjust recipes and tastes etc - that is why i want to brew, more so than the financial savings anyway.

I am just thinking that i seem to need a bit more equipment (and time) to start with AG as opposed to extract and extract looks easier and quicker, but less control on the outcome.

Any way i realise this is probably a question of opinions rather than a hard and fast rule, but oppinions are appreciated from the experienced amongst you.

Also just a another questions on equipment - can i use the boiler as a mashtun? if so how much cleaning is involved between mashing and boiling? and do you just empy it in to the FV (and then clean that again)?

Cheers.
Matt

:hmm:

 

[Aleman]

When I started, way back in the dark ages, I did one (8 pint) trial kit and then moved swiftly on to all grain . . . In many ways I was lucky in buying a copy of Dave Lines Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy, and realised that it was possible to make beer like you bought in the pub and it didn't have to taste like sweet, alcoholic cough syrup (Can you tell my first kit wasn't a success ).

With the advent of the internet there is so much more information out there that jumping in with all grain is not actually that difficult any more. . . . it comes down to the fact of "Is this a hobby that you can dedicate a day to every few weeks and you feel you will stick with for a few years?" If you answer that question with a yes, then go all grain, if the answer is no then go down the premium kit route.

A plastic brewery can be made easily and cheaply, and if the brewing bug really bites upgraded gradually as time goes on.

 

[Moley]

Whichever way you go, you will need a boiler. This is usually a big pot on a gas burner or a bucket with kettle elements fitted or a Burco type with the thermostat knocked out.

Just thinking aloud, I don't really see how you could mash in your boiler unless you had another boiler, because whether you batch or fly sparge you still need a volume of liquor at a controlled temperature.

For extract brewing you only need a boiler and a bucket. Whether you use liquid or dried malt extract, this is the most expensive method of brewing.

For AG brewing you will also need a mash tun. This is most commonly a picnic coolbox, preferably with a tap fitted.

Personally, I think the mash and the sparge is the fun part.

I went straight from kit to AG, it's more time consuming, you've got more homework to do (and all the information is right here), but it really isn't difficult.

 

[matth]

Ok so i think i'm settled on AG.

Can i just get this straight, what i need (in terms of large stuff) is:
Mash tun (I'm sure i have seen a fermentation bucket with a load of insulation on - will this work? as this is what i'm thinking of)
Boiler (prob make that myself from a polyprop bucket some tesco kettles as i have seen ion how to's on it. interms of electricity, will it trip anything running 2 elements for such a long time? I have a little electricity knowledge, but not much i.e. i can solder and put together circuits but my theory knowledge is somewhat lacking.)

Fermantation bucket (would putting insulation on this to keep the temp stable help any in the fermatation, alos do i need a filter before the tap or will it settle of its own accord?)

Thanks - sorry if i sound like a dunce, just trying to clear everything up so i make less mistakes.

 

[Moley]

Mash tun is usually a picnic coolbox or an insulated fermentation bucket. Ideally, it needs a tap fitted and a strainer inside.

It sounds like you've already sussed out the boiler or seen instructions on how to make one.

None of my fermentation buckets have taps or insulation. A tap (not too close to the bottom) might be a good thing, but it's entirely your choice.

Don't be afraid of appearing a dunce, there's a lot of information to take in. I'm still a newbie brewer with 7 AG brews now behind me, and I'm still asking stupid questions. Read all the “How To” guides (I still refer back to BrewStew's guide on a regular basis) and if there's anything you don't understand, ask. This lot will hold your hand and walk you through it.

 

[Sean_Mc]

Ok so i think i'm settled on AG.

Can i just get this straight, what i need (in terms of large stuff) is:
Mash tun (I'm sure i have seen a fermentation bucket with a load of insulation on - will this work? as this is what i'm thinking of)
Thats what I've been using
Boiler (prob make that myself from a polyprop bucket some tesco kettles as i have seen ion how to's on it. interms of electricity, will it trip anything running 2 elements for such a long time? I have a little electricity knowledge, but not much i.e. i can solder and put together circuits but my theory knowledge is somewhat lacking.)
Uncoil any extension leads and use different sockets for each element. Also get good kettle leads not computer ones

Fermantation bucket (would putting insulation on this to keep the temp stable help any in the fermatation, alos do i need a filter before the tap or will it settle of its own accord?)
Just put the bucket somewhere at around 20c (depending on brew)...all the gunk will settle over 10 days

Thanks - sorry if i sound like a dunce, just trying to clear everything up so i make less mistakes.

We all have to start somewhere, so no such thing as a stupid question :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

Matt, I didn't realise you were so local . . . if you want to pop over some time and watch a brew . . . or even take part in a big one and take some Wort/beer home, or even just to jaw about/bodge equipment just PM me.

I have a 60L plastic bucket that I used to use as a boiler . . . I even have the element somewhere . . . plus some hop filters etc.

Personally it looks as though you are going down the right lines, although having a separate HLT really does make your life easier on Brew Day. Even if it is just an insulated bucket that you transfer the sparge liquor to, which is all my 100L HLT is.

 

[Moley]

Matt, I didn't realise you were so local . . . if you want to pop over some time and watch a brew . . . or even take part in a big one and take some Wort/beer home, or even just to jaw about/bodge equipment just PM me.

Matt, if you haven't already done so, and if you've got at least half the brains of a gnat, I would seriously suggest that you seize that invitation.


I'm not jealous at all :whistle:

 

[corby_brewer]

+1 with what Mr Mole said.

 

[matth]

Thanks all, and i think i will take aleman up on his offer, (once i'm out of paint and plaster!), didn't realise that you were so close. Loving this forum and all the info, and once again thanks for all the replies - really appreciate it.

 

[matth]

Hello again more numb questions.

I am planning on Batch sparging as it looks simpler and less intensive on equipment. So what are the volumes of vessels i require?

My aim is to make enough for about 50 500ml bottles (i will appologise at this point as i realise alot of people work in imperial, but i'm afraid i just can't get my head around it, so i am going to state things in metric - i can convert later on google if that is how others prefer).

So for 50 500ml bottles i assume i need to ferment somewhere over 25 litres, prob aroud 26ish? and i will need some space at the top so should i go for around 30-33litre fermentation bucket?

that being the case what size mash tun and what size boiler would i need?

also about batch sparging - double or single sparge? not quite sussed it yet.

thanks again.
Matt

 

[matth]

Also what is all this about efficiency?

thanks again.
Matt

 

[Moley]

So for 50 500ml bottles i assume i need to ferment somewhere over 25 litres, prob aroud 26ish? and i will need some space at the top so should i go for around 30-33litre fermentation bucket?

that being the case what size mash tun and what size boiler would i need?

Spot on with your volumes :thumb:

If you want to end up with 25 litres, and there will always be a little left in the fermenter, you will need to be extracting something like 31-32 litres of sweet wort as you will have loss to evaporation during the boil, loss to hops and boiler dead space. That means you should be looking for a 40 litre boiler.

I only fly sparge so I can't help with your volumes there, but I can get 31-32 litres of wort from around 5-6kg grain in my 19 litre coolbox mash tun.

And I don't understand efficiency either :wha:

 

[Hawks]

I'd be tempted to go slightly larger where possible, you can always brew a smaller batch.

I started by building a 5 gallon brewery which I still use, but now I wish it was 10

I'd be round Alemans by now knocking on his door... See kit in action, possibly get offered some old kit and then decide.. Mind you, this way you could end up with much larger than you planned :hmm:

 

[matth]

thanks,
so for around 40 litres for a boiler.
and 20 litres for mash tun? - from my understanding this would be just 1 sparge (batch sparge)

I still have some searching to do on this forum regarding sparging but how do you know how much to sparge - ie if i don't sparge enough will the flavour be overpowering and if i sparge too much will it be watery?

 

[Aleman]

I've got a 80L gas powered copper (2 by 50L Stainless Kegs) going up for sale soon . . . and the gas burner to power them . . . . and The hop Stoppers

Plus A 60L Plastic boiler (Single backer element) . . . an a 60L Plastic Bucket . . . . And possibly a coupl eof HnG 60L heavy duty fermenters

So it's probably not worth coming by :lol:

 

[Aleman]

how do you know how much to sparge - ie if i don't sparge enough will the flavour be overpowering and if i sparge too much will it be watery?

Not really, If you don't sparge enough you leave sugar behind in the mash so you adjust you hops and produce less beer. . . . if you sparge too much you boil longer . . . but you risk extracting tannins which are a bit like sucking on a tea bag.

If you are batch sparging there is a good Batch Sparge Calculator Here.

 

[matth]

I've got a 80L gas powered copper (2 by 50L Stainless Kegs) going up for sale soon . . . and the gas burner to power them . . . . and The hop Stoppers

Plus A 60L Plastic boiler (Single backer element) . . . an a 60L Plastic Bucket . . . . And possibly a coupl eof HnG 60L heavy duty fermenters

So it's probably not worth coming by :lol:

Good grief! - i think i'll start a little smaller than that - i think i may have a few issues with trying to convince the other half about that amount of equipment - although as i said in my initial plans, when i sell this house the paln is to build a shed brewery (and of course a tap room), so i think my volumes can go up then.

I will have to pop by at somepoint before i'm up and running.

I think i'll definately want to expand at a later date but i think i had better start off bijou and compact and learn what i am doing as i have a tendancy to be experimental - imagine over 100 bottles of undrinkable.

Luckily finished yet one more major DIY job last night - the next one is the utility room where my setup will be based temporarily - hooray!

Part of the agreement with the other half is finishing the DIY jobs before building my brew setup - which i suppose is fair. still collecting bits and gatering info though.

I have found these(the blue ones) - i'm sure i saw some cheaper and based nearer but i can't remember the website - would these be good for boilers and FVs? Just thought they may withstand the heat a bit better.
http://www.smithsofthedean.co.uk/New%20Barrels.htm

Thanks again
Matt

 

[Hawks]

I've got a 80L gas powered copper (2 by 50L Stainless Kegs) going up for sale soon . . . and the gas burner to power them . . . . and The hop Stoppers

Plus A 60L Plastic boiler (Single backer element) . . . an a 60L Plastic Bucket . . . . And possibly a coupl eof HnG 60L heavy duty fermenters

So it's probably not worth coming by :lol:

I'm almost in the car from Portsmouth....

 

[Aleman]

I'm almost in the car from Portsmouth....

Be down that way in the summer . . . Heading off to the Island . . . . camping