Best all-in-one brewing system

[DuncR]

I only go manual with my GF G30 if something goes wrong (usually down to my phone). Usually I let the heating and pump run as per the programmed recipe profile and happy days

 

[Sadfield]

So..... Is it fair to say that most people use an all in one, just the same as BIAB with heating and pumping set manually? Is programming the steps not used or not reliable?

It's a wasted opportunity, why buy one if your not going to use its main feature? I don't think it's a coincidence that the top product in this market is made by a German company. Modified may not need it, but that doesn't make step mashing redundant.

 

[jambop]

If you investigate the manufacturers own data on conversion rates all give conversion times . If we look at Weyermann pale ale malt for example they give a maximum conversion time of 20 minutes for total conversion. It is fair to say this is a lab test using malt grains that are pounded to powder. However the same rules apply to grains that have a normal crush it just takes longer for the sugars to be eluted from the grains into the liquor. Looking at the testing data available form maltsters I am happy to conclude that full conversion is complete inside 30 minutes for most if not all commonly used malts. Saying that I mash for 90 mins because it give the sugars more time to equilibrate into the recirculated wort prior to sparging.

 

[Vinylwasp]

I think it may be the difference in the controller.

The G30 (not sure about other grainfather models) has a PID controller which accurately controls the temperature and is designed to prevent against things like overshoot. It'll more gradually approach the target temperature in the final stages. During the mash, it will sit at a low percentage power to keep the temperature "just right" rather than waiting for it to drop, then coming in at full power.

Whereas I think (not checked) the other models just have a "turn element on 100% if it's under target temperature and off otherwise" which leads to overshoots.

It's probably why the GF is more expensive, but more accurate too

You might be on to something there in combination with the quality of the temp sensors used, sampling rate and how the PID input filters have been designed as well.

 

[stripeyjoe]

I'm going to measure temps with a glass thermometer on my next brew, I have a feeling my G40 might be under-reporting temperatures leading to me mashing at a higher than intended temperature as a few of my beers have not finished as low as intended. Will report back if there are any significant findings... Personally, I'd rather be slightly under temp than over temp to maximise short chain sugars.

 

[MashBag]

After reading this thread, it seems the "all AIOs are the same" is a fallacy.

I was the same. Certainly I thought they fell into two categories pump up and pump over, both functioning very similary. I now think there ought to be a league table

 

[MashBag]

I'm going to measure temps with a glass thermometer on my next brew, I have a feeling my G40 might be under-reporting temperatures leading to me mashing at a higher than intended temperature as a few of my beers have not finished as low as intended. Will report back if there are any significant findings... Personally, I'd rather be slightly under temp than over temp to maximise short chain sugars.

I was recently involved with klarstein that was reporting 2°c low. After that I now think any new machine ought to be checked & calibrated.

 

[Sadfield]

I'm doubting the musketeers when they say, "All In One, one for all!"

 

[jambop]

I'm going to measure temps with a glass thermometer on my next brew, I have a feeling my G40 might be under-reporting temperatures leading to me mashing at a higher than intended temperature as a few of my beers have not finished as low as intended. Will report back if there are any significant findings... Personally, I'd rather be slightly under temp than over temp to maximise short chain sugars.

I repeat again like all these systems the temperature of the wort at the sensor and what is comong from the recirculation arm onto the mashing grains, in my experience, are seldom the same. The reason is simple the flow of wort over these sensors is sluggish and lags behind the hotter wort over the heating area. There are ways to minimise the difference. Have as high a recirculation rate as is possible helps and as someone has commented on here already try to set up a whirlpool below the grain basket. The whirlpool could be done by splitting the recirculation or by an external pump.

 

[jambop]

I was recently involved with klarstein that was reporting 2°c low. After that I now think any new machine ought to be checked & calibrated.

I as said have a crude S40 and last brew when at the start of the mash I forgot to change the heater power to the low setting. The result was a displayed temp of 64C and a measured temperature of the wort exiting the recirculation arm at 72C !! . I cut the heat and removed the recirculation pipe to the outside of the grain basket and opened the flow right to max to try to even things up a bit it helped but the temp evened out at 68C which was 2C higher than I wanted. Thing is it was right at the start of the mash and I did get a less fermentable wort and my beer finished 3 degrees higher than it should have done... still a nice beer but heavy.

 

[Twostage]

I was recently involved with klarstein that was reporting 2°c low. After that I now think any new machine ought to be checked & calibrated.

Calibration is a good idea. I have a Thermapen which I use as the 'master' and calibrate all my digital probes I use for the brewfridge etc. against that. I recently got fed up of taking the Thermapen from the kitchen to the brewshed so bought a cheaper version from Amazon and was happy that they both read exactly the same temp (although the Thermapen gets there almost instantly). I'll check my RAPT thermometer against it.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Calibration is a good idea. I have a Thermapen which I use as the 'master' and calibrate all my digital probes I use for the brewfridge etc. against that. I recently got fed up of taking the Thermapen from the kitchen to the brewshed so bought a cheaper version from Amazon and was happy that they both read exactly the same temp (although the Thermapen gets there almost instantly). I'll check my RAPT thermometer against it.

But how do you know that your thermapen is accurate???

 

[jambop]

But how do you know that your thermapen is accurate???

I have a certified thermometer from a local winery which agrees with my digital so I am confident of my conclusions. However you are right unless you have standardised instrument you are goosed.

 

[Sadfield]

https://beerandbrewing.com/how-to-calibrate-a-thermometer/

 

[Rodcx500z]

I think people need to realise there is no perfect all in one were temp control involved, they are all flawed one way or another with temp control being the biggest issue. i have learned to live with my BZ 35L and am happy with what i brew and sometimes we can try to hard to achieve the holy grail

 

[Agentgonzo]

they are all flawed one way or another with temp control being the biggest issue.

I dispute this. I don't think the temp control is flawed on the G30 at all.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I dispute this. I don't think the temp control is flawed on the G30 at all.

I have a Klarstein and BZ and both were out and from what i read on here so are others, most are made in the same chinese factorys and have different branding. can't comment on GF

 

[MashBag]

I dispute this. I don't think the temp control is flawed on the G30 at all.

Ditto bm20

I think we clearly have a case that some are MUCH better that others.


And to my mind the controllers (s40 for one) could do better to keep things in order. Since o of these units are remarkabley more manual than a thought.

 

[Twostage]

But how do you know that your thermapen is accurate???

As JamBop, below, it came with a bit of paper so it must be right . Actually I was pleasantly surprised when I bought another type and the read exactly the same.

The OCD in me wants all my probes to be calibrated to the same reading, If they were all wrong by the same amount I wouldn't be an issue (unless wrong was 5c ).

When I put together a control box with one probe for the wort and one for the chamber I place them next to each other (its amazing how much difference one of them touching the counter top and the other 'floating' makes) and let them settle for about 1/2 hour and then calculate the offset. Then calibrate them both against the Thermapen. Then I go and lie down

 

[jambop]

I dispute this. I don't think the temp control is flawed on the G30 at all.

I think poeple are misinterperting what is being said here. There is nothing wrong with the temperature sensor as such. What I am saying is that the dispalyed temperature and the measured temperature of recirculated wort are not always the same... the should be as that is the reason to reciculate and maintain mash temperature.
If you are saying that your two temperatures always match then good luck for you , you must be one of the a few that this happens for. Go on any homebrewing site forum and you will hear from a great many who have issues in this respect after they checked their mash temp and found the disparity. The Brewzilla forum on one site I have visited has about thirty pages of people trying to work around the fault. It is not difficult to understand why the two differ. In the case of a GF S40 for example the sensor is on the extreme edge of the bottom plate for obviouse reasons. Below the grain basket there is about 7L of wort that is not being mixed. It relies on the pump to drag wort across that sensor and at the same time homogenise the wort coming from the top with the wort already at the bottom which may being heated. It just does not happen that easy and there is a temperature difference. The best way to get round this is to in some way constantly mix the wort in the bottom of the kettle below the grain basket. My method is an external pump drawing through the drain tap and then pumping it back into the bottom of the kettle using a piece of 12mm copper pipe to form a circuit while maintaining as high a recirculation flow as is practical. I have found this greatly improves things. The slower the wort is being recirculted the greater this problem is.