Belgian Beers to try?

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I did wonder if you had some strong cheese and/ or cured meat to go with the beer when you were in Belgium which does go very well with some of them.

Reference Hefeweizen in theory there should be maximum 50% Pilsner malt with no sugar added to the brew, so that sweetness will not be there and I find the yeast more reserved with the banana and clove flavour, they are generally much weaker in the 5% area rather than 8-10% which may have an impact.

I also love a Hefeweizen, almost as much as a good Tripel or Quad 🍺
 
Clove taste is a function of the yeast and/or the recipe.

Brew a weizen with Mangrove Jack's M20, and you will have cloves. I think that the main property of Leffe is cloves.

Lambic and gueuze are brewed on the basis of wheat, so if you taste cloves, that could be the reason.

Kasteelbier (Brewery Van Honsebroek) does also have a clove taste. But there are enough Belgian (and Dutch) beers which don't have it.

A bit subdued, I like it myself. Tomorrow I will try a second version of Kasteel Donker with T-58 yeast, to see if I also get it (that wasn't the case in my first version).

Some people (and the monks of Westmalle) claim that Westmalle tastes like bananas (esters, I know), but personally I haven't tasted it. The only beer I ever noticed it was Ename Blond.
 
What's the opinion on drinking these beers with the characterful yeast on either leaving it in the bottom of the bottle or adding it to the glass?

I've got one bottle of tripel karmeliet, I'm thinking first half clear second half add the yeast?
 
British brewing where yeasts are typically POF/- (Phenolic Off Flavour Negative). Where as Belgian and Germen top fermenting strains are often POF/+, and lower levels of these flavours are considered a characteristic rather than an fault.

Actually quite a lot of traditional British yeasts are POF+, although you wouldn't guess it looking at most homebrew catalogues - the Brewlab list gives you a better idea of the reality. In fact, a lot of the weird things that are typical of British brewing like Yorkshire squares can be viewed as an attempt to try and reduce the phenolics produced by their yeast. For an example, Lost & Grounded have actually sold commercial saisons made with WLP037 Yorkshire Square and by all accounts it is very clove-y if you treat it "normally" stuck in the bottom of a bucket, but is a lot less clovey if you try and replicate the high aeration of a typical square setup.

You can get a whiff of those phenolics in things like Harvey's and Sam Smiths, although I admit it's not strong even in fresh cask.

Blimey, the things I do in the name of science..... OK, I think I've identified the "unpleasant" flavour as clove, as described below...

First up, thanks @chthon for your suggestions above. If you or anyone else has any further suggestions based on this then I'm open to your recommendations, perhaps for examples that are not heavy on the clove flavours......

Slightly weird sidenote - I really like German Hefeweizen whch is also renowned for having clove and/or banana flavours, but I've never had an issue with it. Perhaps the clove is just somehow much more pronounced in some Belgian beers???

Depends on your hefe - Benediktiner Weiss is an example of one that is really heavily clovey. But yeah, if you don't like clove then Belgian beers aren't really going to be your thing!

Can't argue with many of the recs above like Rochefort 10 (not 12!), Malheur 12 and just about anything from Dolle, De Ranke, De la Senne or Struise. De Ranke XX and Taras Boulba are interesting as Belgian takes on English bitter - not the same, but you can see the inspiration. If you see Dolle's Christmas beer, Stille Nacht, then snap it up, it's fab.

In terms of supermarkets, your best bets are probably Waitrose and Tesco. Waitrose usually has things like Tripel Karmaliet and the "ordinary" Boon kriek and geuze which are good introductions to the styles, and hopefully will inspire you to track down the next level up Mariage Parfait - the MP Kriek is utterly superb (but only available from specialists). One I don't think that's been mentioned so far is Delirium, which even small Tescos have, although I prefer their Guillotine which is much harder to fine here. Tesco sporadically has some of the Goose Island attempts at Belgian styles - Matilda is their take on Orval which I was underwhelmed by, Sofie their saison is much better IMO.

Somewhat randomly, Whole Foods has a pretty good selection of Belgian beers if you have one handy (there's a convenient one in the new development just off Piccadilly Circus) - they have a very USian idea of beer, which means Sam Smith, Belgium and lots of IPAs; at this time of year they have quite a few of the Belgian Xmas beers.

Also it's an obvious one, but the Belgo chain of restaurants is a convenient place to try the more mainstream Belgian beers like De Ranke - and then you have the hardcore places like Lowlander on Drury Lane which is amazing.
 
Clove taste is a function of the yeast and/or the recipe.

It's a combination of the grist providing enough free ferulic acid for the yeast to convert to 4-VG, the yeast having a lot of POF activity, and various aspects of process - more FA can be released by a ferulic acid rest in the mash schedule at 43–45 °C (and ideally at a pH of 5.7-5.8), and lower fermentation temperatures (say 17°C) will suppress the banana esters and give a more clovey result.

Tomorrow I will try a second version of Kasteel Donker with T-58 yeast, to see if I also get it (that wasn't the case in my first version).

T-58 is a notoriously weakly POF yeast, you get black pepper but no real clove. It's very biotransformative though, it turns Chinook from grapefruit into lime.

What's the opinion on drinking these beers with the characterful yeast on either leaving it in the bottom of the bottle or adding it to the glass?

I've got one bottle of tripel karmeliet, I'm thinking first half clear second half add the yeast?

It's traditional with de Koninck, but DK has a pretty clean yeast - it's allegedly the source of WLP515 which is actually a lager yeast.

Not so sure I'd care for it with a more traditionally Belgian yeast,but it's up to you.
 
Actually quite a lot of traditional British yeasts are POF+, although you wouldn't guess it looking at most homebrew catalogues
Fair point, although with most brewery yeasts being blends and not always just saccharomyces, as with harveys. I suspect Whitelabs, Wyeast, Lallemand Fermentis etc select isolates that aren't pof+, picking strains that ensure all users avoid off flavours. More info would be good though.

Brewlabs have more that aren't than are, so I think I get away with saying typically not.wink...
 
Clove taste is a function of the yeast and/or the recipe.

Brew a weizen with Mangrove Jack's M20, and you will have cloves. I think that the main property of Leffe is cloves.

Lambic and gueuze are brewed on the basis of wheat, so if you taste cloves, that could be the reason.

Kasteelbier (Brewery Van Honsebroek) does also have a clove taste. But there are enough Belgian (and Dutch) beers which don't have it.

A bit subdued, I like it myself. Tomorrow I will try a second version of Kasteel Donker with T-58 yeast, to see if I also get it (that wasn't the case in my first version).

Some people (and the monks of Westmalle) claim that Westmalle tastes like bananas (esters, I know), but personally I haven't tasted it. The only beer I ever noticed it was Ename Blond.
Funny, that's why I love westmalle it's straight up over ripe bananas to me. It's the same in their dubbel and tripel and also all of westvleterens beers too.
 
Funny, that's why I love westmalle it's straight up over ripe bananas to me. It's the same in their dubbel and tripel and also all of westvleterens beers too.
I suppose I miss a banana-tasting gene...
 
Depends on your hefe - Benediktiner Weiss is an example of one that is really heavily clovey. But yeah, if you don't like clove then Belgian beers aren't really going to be your thing!
Thanks for the suggestions what else to try. Regarding clove, true, but my limited sampling so far tells me there are enough very good but not clovey examples to warrant continuing. And who knows, maybe I'll come to appreciate it at some point!

T-58 is a notoriously weakly POF yeast, you get black pepper but no real clove. It's very biotransformative though, it turns Chinook from grapefruit into lime.
That's interesting. I googled this and found some more of your comments along these lines on another US forum.

Funny, that's why I love westmalle it's straight up over ripe bananas to me. It's the same in their dubbel and tripel and also all of westvleterens beers too.
Yeah, first time I tried the Westmalle Tripel it reminded me a lot of a German Weizen, or at least my impression of it, I think because of the banana notes. For me much more palatable than the more clovey Tripel Karmeliet.
 
Best Quads: Westvleteren, St Barnardus Abt 12
Best Tripels: Maredsous, Affligem

Interesting/unusual IPA option: Hoblon Chouffe

Westmalle and Rochefort are horribly overrated.
 
I buy this from Tesco a few times a year and love it.
 

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