Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[bobukbrewer]

I have tried pH papers in the past - they do not work. I am adding AMS which is HCl and H2SO4, this is dropping the pH, I have to hope into the right range.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

they do not work.

I beg to differ, but good luck.

 

[Mash Monster]

I beg to differ, but good luck.

Didn’t work for me either I contacted the manufacturer who stated that it was probably due to a storage issue at too high a temperature.

 

[Clint]

I used to use those strips and they went to the right colour. I kept them chucked in a box in the shed.

 

[Mark Trahan]

There's a few ways to measure out the additions. For liquids such as lactic acid or CRS, use a syringe (like the ones that come with the Salifert kits). You can usually get these from a pharmacy or chemist.

For the salts, the best way is using jewellery scales which can be bought for a few quid on ebay. THIS is the one I use. If you don't have scales with the necessary accuracy, another method is to make a solution up by measuring, for example, 5g of gypsum and adding it to 2L of water (this is about the solubility limit of gypsum). Then you can add the appropriate amount of solution, 40ml=0.1g of gypsum. A third, and much less accurate option, is to measure out in teaspoons, 1 level tsp= approx 4g of gypsum.

Steve....I know this is an older post...but for those of us who are science challenged. I live in Tallahassee FL and the 2022 City water report gives information specific to Brewers interest as follows: Calcium 43 mg/l, Magnesium 12 mg/l, Hardness 155 mg/l as calcium carbonate CaCO3 or 9 grains per gallon and a pH value of 7.5. Alkalinity 143 mg/l. They don't list Sulfate anywhere that I can find...and Brew Father's app ask for Sulfate as part of the water salts entry.


They list the Chlorine 0.87 ppm, Haloacetic acids 6.1 ppb, Total Trihalomethanes 22.49 ppb, Nitrate 0.783 ppm, Sodium 4.18 ppm and Tetrachloroethylene 1.5 ppb.

I calibrated my pH meter and confirmed the tap water pH at 7.38.

Based on this what adjustments should I be making for:
1. Pale Ale
2. Irish Reds and Ambers
3. Blondes
4. Light Lagers

I have the Brewers salts and lactic acid to treat it but a bit unsure without "knowing" about the Sulfate aspect of the brewing calculation.

Drowning in too much information and not enough.

Mark

 

[Galena]

Hi

I don't think Steve frequents the forum these days, though I could be wrong.
It seems odd that you don't have sulphate on your water report, is it listed as SO4?
You will need sulphate content so failing that I would send a sample for analysis to Ward Laboratories.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I used to email my water company annually and ask for all the information. They always replied with everything I needed and were very helpful. They now have a separate section in their annual report called “brewers Information”. Not sure if it was something they do now to keep me off their back or if they were planning to do it anyway

EDIT. Here’s my water report

 

[peebee]

Drowning in too much information and not enough.

No need to "drown in too much information", but you certainly have "not enough".

I applied my "Defuddler" spreadsheet to this one: It screamed incessantly; I hadn't anticipated problems like this one when I designed it (only a few weeks ago). I've had to assume:

• "Alkalinity" is measured "as bicarbonate": I believe it's quite common to do that in USA. It wouldn't work with "as CaCO3".
• I've assumed Chloride and Sulphate are split 50-50. They most likely are not! But it gives you an idea of the magnitude of the missing information.
• A tiny alteration (<2ppm as CaCO3) is made to "Hardness" to fit with the rounded (no decimals) Ca and Mg figures. No consequence.

DON'T USE THESE FIGURES! They only illustrate what you are missing!

You are only interested in the top six boxes. The purpose of the Defuddler is to remove the confusing stuff (hardness, as CaCO3, etc.). Spreadsheet downloadable from "signature" below.

 

[Speccy]

Just started dabbling in all this. I’ve read through the whole thread, absorbed maybe 15% of it, and got as far as buying a Salifert KH/Alkalinity test and a big bottle of CRS.

The test gives my tap water’s alkalinity as a mighty 265 ppm. I tested again after adding 1.3ml of CRS to 1 litre of water and got 30 ppm, exactly in line with the forum’s calculator. So, pretty pleased with that.

I’m now looking at gypsum and Epsom salts, but I’ve hit the problem that Wessex Water’s otherwise detailed report for my area doesn’t include a figure for magnesium. I’ve therefore got nothing to put into that box on the calculator, which is recommending I add 3.14 grams of Epsom salts for a bitter recipe, possibly unnecessarily.

Given that (as I understand it) hardness comes from a combination of calcium and magnesium, is there any way I can estimate a figure for magnesium based the hardness figures I've got from Wessex water – e.g., by subtracting their calcium value from the overall hardness figure to give something in the rough ballpark?

Here are the figures from their ‘Water hardness’ table:

• Calcium (mg/l) 111.45

• Calcium Carbonate (mg/l) 304.68

• Calcium Carbonate (mmol/l) 3.05

• Degrees Clark (UK) 21.33

• Degrees German (dH) 17.06

• Degrees French (f) 30.47

Their report also gives figures for sulphate, chloride, sodium… everything I need for the calculator except magnesium. Can I somehow reverse engineer that number? (Of course, I could just ask them, but where’s the fun in that?)

 

[peebee]

There appears to be a glimmer of hope or digging out the Magnesium?

I wrote that "Defuddler" thing where all this "Hardness" prattle can be dumped in an obscuring "Foetid Mire". All that stuff (6 lines) can be dumped straight in ... but hang on with the first two lines a bit longer. The Calcium Carbonate (which it isn't!) actually hides the Magnesium that's pretending to be Calcium. The maths is dead simple, that's a reason "Calcium Carbonate" was chosen. So, 304.68 x 40% is 121.87mg/L of pretend Calcium. But that's more than the figure for Calcium provided ... it might be the "real" figure for Calcium?

In which case: 121.87 - 111.45 = 10.42 ... the amount of Magnesium pretending to be Calcium (may include other metals also pretending - but they should be such small quantities they can be ignored). Chuck those saved two lines in the Mire, but make a note of "Calcium" 'cos we think it might really be just (i.e. "real") Calcium.

Convert the pretend Calcium back to pretend "Calcium Carbonate": 10.42 / 40% = 26.06. The "magic number" that converts Magnesium into "Calcium Carbonate" is 4.118 (just 4.1 will do). So, 26.06 / 4.118 = 6.33mg/L of Magnesium ions (with the 111.45mg/L of Calcium ions).



Get it checked! The Magnesium seems a bit low. I'll be chuffed if its right ... I did it off the top of me head (says PeeBee, a known mentally handicapped dreamer around here!).

Oh, and if its right, make sure you dump the "Hardness" nonsense next time!

 

[bobukbrewer]

If a chemist analyses water for calcium content, how can that figure be incorrect ?

 

[Sadfield]

If a chemist analyses water for calcium content, how can that figure be incorrect ?

Maintaining accurate records is part of The Water Supply (Water Quality) Regulations 2016, too.

 

[Speccy]

...Convert the pretend Calcium back to pretend "Calcium Carbonate": 10.42 / 40% = 26.06. The "magic number" that converts Magnesium into "Calcium Carbonate" is 4.118 (just 4.1 will do). So, 26.06 / 4.118 = 6.33mg/L of Magnesium ions (with the 111.45mg/L of Calcium ions).

Amazing work! That definitely sounds plausible, based on my hazy memory of O-level chemistry. Even if it's not spot on, it gives me something to put into the calculator for now, and it looks like I'm probably OK for magnesium without adding Epsom salts. Many thanks, peebee!

 

[peebee]

If a chemist analyses water for calcium content, how can that figure be incorrect ?

The figure isn't incorrect (unless it's really cocked up ... everyone can make mistakes!). But you do have to understand how they are arriving at it or what you think it is telling you will be incorrect.

A decent route for understanding it that doesn't involve me (or @Sadfield ... who really, really, despises me! Not just me I guess?) is lookup "Magnesium Hardness". Some will try and hide the confusing stuff by simply not mentioning it! But some will lay it out in its full colours, like (say) "10.00 mg/l as CaCO3". It won't be a misprint. It won't say "as MgCO3". Don't ignore it. Now, try to understand why the measurement mentions "CaCO3"?


Sorry, but you're in for a rough ride!

 

[bobukbrewer]

if I analyse a metal for tin, I do not want the copper level

must be a spectroscope that measures only calcium

thanks

 

[peebee]

if I analyse a metal for tin, I do not want the copper level ...

This (sub-)discussion started off with a "Hardness" analysis. At which point you have to put on your loony hat, and grab a bar of soap! (Okay, they do it a bit more accurately these days, but it's still Land of Narnia stuff). Stick with straight-forward "real" ion analysis (there's only a small handful that are useful) and "Alkalinity" ... I find "as HCO3" easiest because for brewing it mostly "is HCO3"!

How are you getting on with looking into "as CaCO3"? Horrible isn't it!

 

[bobukbrewer]

ok I have a friend, a BSc chemist, who works for anglia Water. I will ask said friend what they mean by Ca 42 ppm

 

[Druss]

Not sure if this has been asked before, I've only just started tinkering with water chemistry, so I'll readily confess my ignorance on the subject.

I'm using the Brewfather app's water calculator and Tesco Elmhurst English mineral water. When I'm putting in the figures into the calculator, do I simply enter the figures as stated on the bottle?

The bottles say it's measured per litre, I'm using six litres in total, should I multiply the numbers by six when entering into the calculator or are the 'values per litre' a standard measurement that it's already using?

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

You’ll probably find the values are PPM (Parts per Million) so it doesn’t matter if you are using 1 litre or a thousand litres. The values are the same

I would question why you have decided to use that water? Is your tap water no good?

 

[Druss]

You’ll probably find the values are PPM (Parts per Million) so it doesn’t matter if you are using 1 litre or a thousand litres. The values are the same

I would question why you have decided to use that water? Is your tap water no good?

Ah, I thought I was probably over complicating the issue.

My tap water is garbage, fine for washing dishes but not for drinking. I'd be interested to attempt to use it for brewing but too afraid that the batch would be ruined.