Beer engine back in action

[Dads_Ale]

After a bit of inactivity my beer engine was put back in service this evening.

After trying various ways of serving homebrew via a beer engine (bag-in-a-box, converted PB) over an extended period without it going flat I am trialling the latest configuration:

The brew, Deuchers IPA Clone, has been force carbed in a corny keg. It is then connected to a 5litre bag-in-a-box with the box lined with insulating foil, via a few jg taps and the Viton bag connector.

The bag is filled using the keg pressure (about 10psi). The box also includes a flap so as a freezer block can be inserted to keep the beer cool. The keg is then isolated and the beer served from the bag.
The bag is topped up as required. The keg is kept at 10psi to ensure the beer remains carbed and is stored in a FV filled with cold water and freezer block to keep it coolish.

Hopefully as the bag is only filled with a few pints as required the rest will not go flat so the keg contents can be used over a few weeks. We will see :-D

I had intended to wait for the air temp to drop but the pull of a full keg of beer was too great and I need space in the fridge for a couple more cornies at the end of the week.

Happy Days:

 

[peebee]

Okay... please explain, why the intermediary bag-in-a-box? I guess that's a demand valve on the hand-pump (go on, wind me up and call it a check valve) so why isn't the cornie connected directly to the pump?

My own pump is connected directly to a cornie. The only problem I've had so far is forgetting to properly connect the CO2 cylinder (the hand-pump carries on drawing beer, but air is being dragged past the lid seal which was never designed to deal with partial vacuums, and there is no warning until it is too late!).

 

[Dads_Ale]

Okay... please explain, why the intermediary bag-in-a-box? I guess that's a demand valve on the hand-pump (go on, wind me up and call it a check valve) so why isn't the cornie connected directly to the pump?

My own pump is connected directly to a cornie. The only problem I've had so far is forgetting to properly connect the CO2 cylinder (the hand-pump carries on drawing beer, but air is being dragged past the lid seal which was never designed to deal with partial vacuums, and there is no warning until it is too late!).

This is still a bit of a trial set up. When I had the corny connected directly to the pump I found the pump was 'hunting' which I put down to the pressure. This caused excess fobbing. Only solved by dropping the pressure right down
The corny can still be connected directly so I will be trying it again.

 

[peebee]

Right. I've never tried connecting as much as 10 psi so perhaps I've yet to meet these problems. My demand valve is listed as 5 psi max, but it seems to work okay at 6-7. And despite being on a bit of a mission, getting a regulator to give just 6-7 psi has been a bit of an achievement.
Cheers!

 

[FatDad]

Kind of puts my 25l bucket and into bottles system to shame. Love your commitment though!

 

[Dads_Ale]

Kind of puts my 25l bucket and into bottles system to shame. Love your commitment though!

I started with a 25l bucket and bottles in the early nineties so beware :p

I am quite pleased as I left about 2 pints in the bag overnight and just pulled a pint and it was still in good condition :drink:
Also the freezer block was still cold in the box so the beer remained cool.

 

[Dads_Ale]

Well the bag-in-a-box was a bit of a failure. The bag has 2 layers and it filled up with C02 in between them meaning I struggled to refill as planned.

So back to plan A.

Using a 12litre PB and newly acquired cask breather.
After a weeks initial trial with some rubbish beer this seems to be working well. Next to try with some decent beer and see how it goes :-)

 

[Dads_Ale]

Well the bag-in-a-box was a bit of a failure. The bag has 2 layers and it filled up with C02 in between them meaning I struggled to refill as planned.

So back to plan A.

Using a 12litre PB and newly acquired cask breather.
After a weeks initial trial with some rubbish beer this seems to be working well. Next to try with some decent beer and see how it goes :-)

As temperature has dropped have tried a better beer in this setup. Need lowish temp as the PB is not in the fridge.

Transferred fully carbonated beer from corny keg to the PB. Probably a bit over carbed and need to use 3/16 hose to counteract the foaming that occurred.
But beer has been on tap for over a week now and still has a degree of carbonation and has not gone off or oxidised. Think I have cracked it...:)

 

[Dads_Ale]

Update on this set up.

Had a beer on tap over the holidays and have just pulled the last half pint after over 3 weeks in the barrel. Cask breather works a treat

Still perfectly drinkable with good carbonation and no oxidisation, probably would have lasted even longer.
Just need to sort out some way of keeping it cool in the summer as fridge is always full of cornies :)

 

[peebee]

Three weeks? Impressive!

I was convinced my beer went completely flat after a week! Although I had attached an entire cornie to the pump (and using the poor-man's version of cask breather; a propane regulator, which at 37mbar is as near to atmospheric pressure as damn it).

I'd been thinking of migrating to your solution as my own solution (modifying low pressure, airbrush, regulators to work at 4PSI) is definitely having a negative impact on the current beer (even modified the regulators are still a bit hit and miss so frequently get pushed to 7PSI - and I have to admit that can result in uncask-like beer... CAMRA followers can thumb their noses saying "told you so"). A smaller than 12L intermediary might be useful all the same.

EDIT:

You've kicked me into action! Actually found a replacement for my dodgy airbrush regulators here: http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2egasproducts%2eco%2euk%2fcgi%2dbin%2fos000001%2epl%3fSEQUENCE%3d3%26ACTION%3dFinish%26ORDERNUMBER%3dPB10TH10118013%26REFPAGE%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252egasproducts%252eco%252euk%252facatalog%252fLPG%255f50%252d150%255fmbar%255fComap%255fPropane%255fGas%255fRegulator%255f%252d%255fBrooder%252ehtml%26&WD=ha9606&PN=LPG_50%2d150_mbar_Comap_Propane_Gas_Regulator_%2d_Brooder%2ehtml%23aHA9606#aHA9606.

Okay I'm back to propane/butane regulators, but these are adjustable (.75-2PSI) and, most importantly, don't lumber me with the dreaded "POL" thread! I'll tell you how I get on, but I still fancy going with your concept of using an "intermediary" vessel.

EDIT 2:

"A smaller than 12L intermediary might be useful". I'm not thinking! You don't have to "fill" the intermediary, you might just transfer, say, 6L in to it.

 

[peebee]

(This is an informational post for anyone reading this valuable thread; I'm not presuming to teach "Dads_ale" how to suck eggs!).

I notice you've still got the "check-valve" attached (that's the device between pump and cask, the "breather" is the device between cask and CO2 cylinder). It's possibly redundant now but I wouldn't be tempted to remove it as it prevents beer flowing back into the cask (especially as you've got a "swan neck" or "northern pour" nozzle on the hand-pump which allows you to dip the nozzle into the glass and potentially set up a syphon; glad to see no "sparkler", those things suck the guts out of your beer - try it if you don't believe me!).

But you could replace the "check-valve" with a real check-valve (the current "check-valve" is actually a demand-valve; a device for hand-pumping pressurised ale often used in pubs to try and "cheat" unsuspecting CAMRA followers). I used to use the John Guest check-valves. If the cask did over-pressure, the "cracking pressure" of the check valve would still hold back about 1/2psi or more before the beer poured out of the pump!