BBNo 21|06 Pale Ale Recipe help?

[r-evans]

Anybody able to help me with a recipe for this?

It is a Mosaic and Enigma Pale Ale at 5.2%. I'd like to give it a go for my first go at AG, I had it at the brewery not long ago and knew instantly it's the kind of beer I'd like to be making and drinking.

It was NE IPA like in appearance and mouthfeel, really hazy and juicy which I love. Super sessionable too despite the higher ABV. (not for me personally, but in general)

Obviously I know which hops to use, not sure about the schedule although I'm guessing later boil and a heavy dry hop. No idea on a grain bill, I've looked at NE IPA recipes but not sure if I need to scale something down for a pale ale?

My Kettle is 22.7L.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

[bigbud78]

I've not tried that one, I had there 21/03 Pale Ale - Citra Amerillo Mosiac
My goodness I wish I could brew something that good

 

[Leon103]

Have you tried asking them for details on the recipe?

 

[r-evans]

I've not tried that one, I had there 21/03 Pale Ale - Citra Amerillo Mosiac
My goodness I wish I could brew something that good

Yea their beers are ridiculously good. If I can make something even a 10th of what they make I'd be happy.

Have you tried asking them for details on the recipe?

Not thought of that, I might message them and ask. Not sure how much they'd want to give up a recipe though.

 

[Leon103]

Yea their beers are ridiculously good. If I can make something even a 10th of what they make I'd be happy.



Not thought of that, I might message them and ask. Not sure how much they'd want to give up a recipe though.

They may do. I have asked loads of breweries questions and most if not all reply. Asked one about yeast and they offered me some and told me about east harvesting etc

 

[Spapro]

Anybody able to help me with a recipe for this?

It is a Mosaic and Enigma Pale Ale at 5.2%. I'd like to give it a go for my first go at AG, I had it at the brewery not long ago and knew instantly it's the kind of beer I'd like to be making and drinking.

It was NE IPA like in appearance and mouthfeel, really hazy and juicy which I love. Super sessionable too despite the higher ABV. (not for me personally, but in general)

Obviously I know which hops to use, not sure about the schedule although I'm guessing later boil and a heavy dry hop. No idea on a grain bill, I've looked at NE IPA recipes but not sure if I need to scale something down for a pale ale?

My Kettle is 22.7L.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

A NEIPA relies on really soft water, lots of hops late in the boil/flameout, yeast selection and typically is dry hopped very early (2-3 days) into primary fermentation.

Its a very ambitious first brew, but this thread could be useful to you:
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67516

This is a great NEIPA yeast:
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=598

For your first brew I would be more inclined to do a simpler pale ale using Mosaic/Enigma or maybe Galaxy (fruit salad) hops and the above Vermont yeast (or US05 as alternative if using dry packet). Would give you a very fruity pale ale which you would enjoy based on your tastes, and you could move on from there towards a true NEIPA style, adding additional elements (water treatment, oats/wheat in the grain bill, dry hopping etc) as your experience grows.

Hope this helps, and enjoy your first AG brew - sure it will be great whatever you go with, no way back from all grain !

 

[r-evans]

A NEIPA relies on really soft water, lots of hops late in the boil/flameout, yeast selection and typically is dry hopped very early (2-3 days) into primary fermentation.

Its a very ambitious first brew, but this thread could be useful to you:
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67516

This is a great NEIPA yeast:
https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=598

For your first brew I would be more inclined to do a simpler pale ale using Mosaic/Enigma or maybe Galaxy (fruit salad) hops and the above Vermont yeast (or US05 as alternative if using dry packet). Would give you a very fruity pale ale which you would enjoy based on your tastes, and you could move on from there towards a true NEIPA style, adding additional elements (water treatment, oats/wheat in the grain bill, dry hopping etc) as your experience grows.

Hope this helps, and enjoy your first AG brew - sure it will be great whatever you go with, no way back from all grain !

Thanks for all the info, very helpful!

I know it is a slightly more complex recipe than most people's first go at AG but I like to jump in at the deep end. Plus as I like really hoppy beers I am worried if I don't dry hop at all it wont even turn out to be a beer to my liking. Could be wrong but just going off the beers that I enjoy.

One thing that may hinder this anyway, which I only noticed late last night, is that I can't find anywhere with Enigma in stock. But I'm sure people on here can find some! :smile:

 

[r-evans]

They may do. I have asked loads of breweries questions and most if not all reply. Asked one about yeast and they offered me some and told me about east harvesting etc

I asked them, they didn't reply.

Although they haven't replied in the past either when I've asked simple questions about brewery opening, bottles for sale, etc

 

[Sadfield]

From their website:

"21 – PALE ALE

Most*versions of our pale ale take their cues from American East Coast hoppy beers, displaying a pronounced but natural hop and protein haze, a side effect of brewing with large amounts of oats and dry-hopping on active yeast. The result is a vibrant, sharp and juicy palate with a smooth texture to balance the intense hop character."

The website also lists ingredients for this beer as water, barley, oats, wheat, hops, yeast.

My approach would be to use...

75% Pale malt
15% Oats
5% Wheat malt
5% Carapils

Hop with equal Citra, Amarillo and Mosaic at 10 minutes and at flame out with a steep keeping the overall IBUs to 30. Dry hop in two additions, the first a day or two after fermentation starts, the second post fermentation. Around 6g/L total dry hopping should give a substantial aroma. I would probably use US05 to begin with for simplicity (although not ideal there is anecdotal evidence of this yeast working for this style).

Compare and tweak from there. Would be a cracking beer regardless of authenticity.











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[r-evans]

From their website:

"21 ��" PALE ALE

Most*versions of our pale ale take their cues from American East Coast hoppy beers, displaying a pronounced but natural hop and protein haze, a side effect of brewing with large amounts of oats and dry-hopping on active yeast. The result is a vibrant, sharp and juicy palate with a smooth texture to balance the intense hop character."

The website also lists ingredients for this beer as water, barley, oats, wheat, hops, yeast.

My approach would be to use...

70% Pale malt
20% Oats
5% Wheat malt
5% Carapils

Hop with equal Citra, Amarillo and Mosaic at 10 minutes and at flame out with a steep keeping the overall IBUs to 30. Dry hop in two additions, the first a day or two after fermentation starts, the second post fermentation. Around 6g/L total dry hopping should give a substantial aroma. I would probably use US05 to begin with for simplicity (although not ideal there is anecdotal evidence of this yeast working for this style).

Compare and tweak from there. Would be a cracking beer regardless of authenticity.

That's great, thanks for your help.

I might just do this exact recipe and go from there.

 

[r-evans]

From their website:

"21 ��" PALE ALE

Most*versions of our pale ale take their cues from American East Coast hoppy beers, displaying a pronounced but natural hop and protein haze, a side effect of brewing with large amounts of oats and dry-hopping on active yeast. The result is a vibrant, sharp and juicy palate with a smooth texture to balance the intense hop character."

The website also lists ingredients for this beer as water, barley, oats, wheat, hops, yeast.

My approach would be to use...

75% Pale malt
15% Oats
5% Wheat malt
5% Carapils

Hop with equal Citra, Amarillo and Mosaic at 10 minutes and at flame out with a steep keeping the overall IBUs to 30. Dry hop in two additions, the first a day or two after fermentation starts, the second post fermentation. Around 6g/L total dry hopping should give a substantial aroma. I would probably use US05 to begin with for simplicity (although not ideal there is anecdotal evidence of this yeast working for this style).

Compare and tweak from there. Would be a cracking beer regardless of authenticity.

Another quick question.

How much would you recommend to hop with in the boil at 10 min and 0 min on a 20L batch?

I have just been given 110g each of Simcoe, Mosaic and Ekuanot so looking to try a combo of two of these.

Cheers

 

[Sadfield]

Hard to say without working a full recipe out and knowing the Alpha Acid % of each hop, but 50g at 5 minutes and 50g for a 20 minute steep, split between Mosaic and Ekuanot will get you in the ballpark.

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[r-evans]

Hard to say without working a full recipe out and knowing the Alpha Acid % of each hop, but 50g at 5 minutes and 50g for a 20 minute steep, split between Mosaic and Ekuanot will get you in the ballpark.

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Thanks for all the info.

I'm going to download Beersmith tonight and run this recipe through it to see what it comes up with. If all good I'll order the ingredients and maybe brew it this weekend.

Exciting!

 

[Sadfield]

Good luck.

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[RKi]

For what its worth, i attempted a NEIPA last month without treating my water using a Brulosophy recipe. Everything went really well and the beer looked and smelled great. However, it tasted bloody awful! Terrible front/side of tongue bitterness ruined it :[

I think the water treatment aspect may be super important when dry hopping during active fermentation.

 

[Linalmeemow]

For what its worth, i attempted a NEIPA last month without treating my water using a Brulosophy recipe. Everything went really well and the beer looked and smelled great. However, it tasted bloody awful! Terrible front/side of tongue bitterness ruined it :[

I think the water treatment aspect may be super important when dry hopping during active fermentation.

Not sure about that - I did the DIY Dog Albino Squid Assassin which had a big dry hop addition at high krausen and came out lovely, really smooth and no harsh bitterness. I use bottled spring water and the only treatment I add is a teaspoon of gypsum.

 

[Sadfield]

Sounds like you've not allowed time for conditioning and have quite raw hop flavours in there. Although these are beers to be drunk fresh, they can be too fresh and green.

If it is still too bitter then try adding a pinch of salt to a glass, as chloride will soften the bitterness. When doing water treatment for this style, the sulphate:chloride ratio should we weighted towards chloride, away from what would normally be used for a hop forward beer. It's the soft, smoothness of a stout/porter that is the aim.

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[RKi]

Not sure about that - I did the DIY Dog Albino Squid Assassin which had a big dry hop addition at high krausen and came out lovely, really smooth and no harsh bitterness. I use bottled spring water and the only treatment I add is a teaspoon of gypsum.

Exactly, you used spring water. Think i'll be trying RO water + additions if i ever re-attempt :lol:

 

[RKi]

Sounds like you've not allowed time for conditioning and have quite raw hop flavours in there. Although these are beers to be drunk fresh, they can be too fresh and green.

If it is still too bitter then try adding a pinch of salt to a glass, as chloride will soften the bitterness. When doing water treatment for this style, the sulphate:chloride ratio should we weighted towards chloride, away from what would normally be used for a hop forward beer. It's the soft, smoothness of a stout/porter that is the aim.

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It was still god awful after 8 weeks in the bottle. For what its worth, one of the bizarre things about it was the head. I'd describe it as fast dissipating like Coca Cola and weirdly loud! Could hear it fizzing away :-? Never had any of my others brews possess that trait.

 

[Sadfield]

Does your water supply have very high alkalinity, RKi? It would probably explain the harsh bitterness and lack of head retention.

Head retention in this style really shouldn't be a problem with the hopping rates used as isohumolone is foam positive.

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