Batch Priming

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

So I've just been reading a thread from 2015 and it's given me an idea. Not sure if the chap who started the thread is still a member, so rather than dredge that up I thought I'd start a new one.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/sodastream-keg-system.51902/
Is this chap saying he batch primes with sugar in a keg at room temperature, rather than use a gas bottle with a fridge? I think this is a brilliant idea! It would help us on so many levels.

Reasons I want to do this:-

It would massively cut down the amount of CO2 we use - coming to the end of my gas bottle is worrying me
It would free up the fermenting fridge space, as we can only ferment one beer at a time
It would cut out the worry of oxygenation (or would it?)

Once it's carbonated we would use our very cold downstairs toilet for serving (attached to the gas bottle). I personally don't like very cold refrigerated beer anyway, unless it's lager.

Does anybody else do this? Any thoughts? Am I a simpleton as I haven't thought of this already?

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi Lisa i take it you mean a corny keg, yes you can prime your beer using sugar but, you still need a small amount of gas to seal the lid , and you have more control over the carbonation levels as opposed to a pressure barrel

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I don't have cornies Rod, but would use the all-rounder or the taller Fermzilla, as they are just see through kegs anyway.

Going to try this on my next brew I think! I will report back!

 

[Big_Eight]

One thing to keep in mind if you use a spunding valve and ferment under pressure that it suppresses yeast character but if you are looking for a clean character from the yeast this is a good option.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

One thing to keep in mind if you use a spunding valve and ferment under pressure that it suppresses yeast character but if you are looking for a clean character from the yeast this is a good option.

This is totally separate from fermenting - I would be transferring the beer off the trub after fermentation to batch prime, into a clean vessel. I am guessing any esters from the yeast would be given off in the first few days of primary fermentation, and they wouldn't be a concern in secondary.

I am aware of pressure fermentation pros and cons

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Presumably it’d only work if the vessel was full? What would happen if there was some headspace?

 

[Tanglefoot]

I primed a bitter with sugar the first time I used my corny keg.
Worked fine, just purged headspace by conecting co2 and venting a couple of times.
Then left it to self carbonate
I think I finished the keg without having to top up with gas.

I used a reduced gm per litre with the priming sugar though after reading something online
but can't remember the reduced percentage ( I'll have a check see if its in my notes ).

 

[Big_Eight]

This is totally separate from fermenting - I would be transferring the beer off the trub after fermentation to batch prime, into a clean vessel. I am guessing any esters from the yeast would be given off in the first few days of primary fermentation, and they wouldn't be a concern in secondary.

I am aware of pressure fermentation pros and cons

I completely misread and somehow confused batch priming which is what you are doing with pressure fermenting (even though the title of the topic is batch priming). Note to self to have a cup of coffee before replying in the morning.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I completely misread and somehow confused batch priming which is what you are doing with pressure fermenting (even though the title of the topic is batch priming). Note to self to have a cup of coffee before replying in the morning.

Not to worry!

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I primed a bitter with sugar the first time I used my corny keg.
Worked fine, just purged headspace by conecting co2 and venting a couple of times.
Then left it to self carbonate
I think I finished the keg without having to top up with gas.

I used a reduced gm per litre with the priming sugar though after reading something online
but can't remember the reduced percentage ( I'll have a check see if its in my notes ).

Thank you. Would be handy if you could find it. I don’t want to over carbonate. Under carbonating obviously not a problem though lol

 

[Leon103]

How much gas are you actually using to carb your beer? A 6.2kg bottles of co2 lasts me over a year, not as cheap as sugar, but I prefer the beer, more consistent and a lot less faff. Plus eliminates oxygen intake

 

[phildo79]

I started off doing this when I first got kegs but quickly changed to force carbing. Sugar takes longer and you have less control. And as previously mentioned, how much co2 are you actually saving?

I found it tricky to get the amount of sugar right. Some sources say use a third of what you normally use but I found using a half worked better.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Couldn't find anything noted down but I think I opted for 60% of what I'd use to barrel.
But better to under do it and top up with co2 than end up pouring a load of foam.

Main reason I primed like this was I had one regulator/gas set with a corny and a minikeg full.
Minikeg went in the fridge with the gas and corny conditioned at room (shed) temperature.


Interesting but ultimately inconclusive article here
https://brulosophy.com/2016/09/12/c...tion-vs-keg-conditioning-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

How much gas are you actually using to carb your beer? A 6.2kg bottles of co2 lasts me over a year, not as cheap as sugar, but I prefer the beer, more consistent and a lot less faff. Plus eliminates oxygen intake

I would have to disagree with that Leon. It doesn’t completely eliminate oxygen - it depends how you transfer it across to the second vessel.

Not really important though - I’m just trying to conserve as much CO2 as possible. We’re not in a position to waste any money and trying to find a cheaper way. Not bothered about faffing - I do it for a living

 

[Leon103]

I would have to disagree with that Leon. It doesn’t completely eliminate oxygen - it depends how you transfer it across to the second vessel.

Not really important though - I’m just trying to conserve as much CO2 as possible. We’re not in a position to waste any money and trying to find a cheaper way. Not bothered about faffing - I do it for a living

Sorry should have said in my setup it eliminates oxygen.

Most people with co2 have a cornie but I missed the bit about not having one.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I started off doing this when I first got kegs but quickly changed to force carbing. Sugar takes longer and you have less control. And as previously mentioned, how much co2 are you actually saving?

I found it tricky to get the amount of sugar right. Some sources say use a third of what you normally use but I found using a half worked better.

Regarding sugar amounts, I was going to start with the amount stated on the brewer's friend calculator, taking into account the temperature of the wort as well. Plus trying to choose a vessel that was about the right size to do it in. Then fill headspace with CO2 from the bottle and leave it for 1-2 weeks to see what happens.

I'm guessing doing it this way will add approximately 0.5% to the beer ABV.

 

[phildo79]

Regarding sugar amounts, I was going to start with the amount stated on the brewer's friend calculator, taking into account the temperature of the wort as well. Plus trying to choose a vessel that was about the right size to do it in. Then fill headspace with CO2 from the bottle and leave it for 1-2 weeks to see what happens.

I'm guessing doing it this way will add approximately 0.5% to the beer ABV.

If you don't mind waiting an extra week or two to drink your beer, then why not, I suppose. Me, I am very impatient and want to try the beer ASAFP so I doubt I will ever use sugar again.

 

[Buffers brewery]

A bit late to the party @LisaMC but I use a fermentation bucket (that has a nice tightly fitting lid) so not pressure fermenting, and serve from a King Keg pressure barrel. To save CO2 I collect fermentation gas in mylar balloons (x4) which enables me to fill my KK with gas before I do a closed transfer. Immediately prior to transfer I prime the beer in the fermentation bucket with sugar solution without opening the bucket. Once transferred the KK goes back in the fridge at 20C for a week and it's up to 10-15 psi then it's moved to somewhere cool to condition.
Used to use CO2 from a cylinder to purge my KK but using fermentation gas has eliminated that. Don't know if that helps?

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

A bit late to the party @LisaMC but I use a fermentation bucket (that has a nice tightly fitting lid) so not pressure fermenting, and serve from a King Keg pressure barrel. To save CO2 I collect fermentation gas in mylar balloons (x4) which enables me to fill my KK with gas before I do a closed transfer. Immediately prior to transfer I prime the beer in the fermentation bucket with sugar solution without opening the bucket. Once transferred the KK goes back in the fridge at 20C for a week and it's up to 10-15 psi then it's moved to somewhere cool to condition.
Used to use CO2 from a cylinder to purge my KK but using fermentation gas has eliminated that. Don't know if that helps?

Thank you BB I'll have to read it slowly

 

[tondy79]

Sorry to post on an old thread, but the topic seems relevant so thought it best to keep everything together...

I have just filled a 19l corny and added priming sugar at the level recommended by the using the priming calculator on Brewer's Friend website. Now that I have done that I see posts above suggesting that for secondary fermentation in a corny keg I should have used a reduced ratio (50-60% of the recommended priming sugar... I am wondering whether I need to hook up a spunding valve to keep the pressure around 10-15 psi, to avoid over-carbonating?

Anyone got experience with this?

Thanks!