Back liquoring

[Siscokid85]

Hi all,

I have been wondering about back liquoring or fermenter top up.

Quite often I wind up with slightly over strength wort. Not a terrible problem to have, maybe I need to refine my equipment profile on Brewfather or something.

Anyway how do people back liquor on brew day?

I treat my sparge water as per recommended treatments on brew father, I have adjusted BF so the hlt has a dead space of 10l so I don’t accidentally drain below the elements. Therefore I often have 20l of treated sparge water in the hlt yet maybe only use 10l of it for the sparge. So I assume the rest should be perfect for back liquoring, in my head as this would be at the point of an oh **** moment when you realise that you don’t have enough / too strong wort it would be once it is in the fermenter (hence bf terms it as fermenter top up). You don’t have the option of boiling etc as in the

So once I have sparged at say 75 degrees, should I whack it up and boil the remainder for 10 minutes before I use it for back liquoring / fermenter top up?

Just wondering how others do it, I think in small breweries they tend to sim to brew stronger wort than they want and back liquor to give control over the finished strength, shifting the variability to volume.

 

[gyurmaember]

The way I do it, is boil it, than whilst it's still hot, fill it into HDPE jerry cans, then put the cap on.

When it's needed, just sanitise around the cap, and dump it into the fermenter.

 

[The Baron]

If just topping up say a litre or so I use tap water, if it's good enough to drink then it's ok for me

 

[RichardM]

If just topping up say a litre or so I use tap water, if it's good enough to drink then it's ok for me

Same here, but if I had left over sparge water I'd use that, without boiling it.

 

[An Ankoù]

I do it regularly. I tend to make 20 litre batches in a 15 litre pot on the stove-top and I end up with about 14-15 litres of wort (I finish the sparge by letting the mash drain into the hot-liquor pot once the kettle is full enough). I then liquor back to the required OG whatever the volume may be, but it;s always around 20 litres. I calculate the bittering hops on a 20 litre batch Plus extra to make up the decreased utilisation cased by the increased gravity of the boiling wort. I used to boil water for topping up and let it cool as the wort cools, but it's much better to get some flat mineral water with a similar --CO3 content to your brewing water. Depending on ambient conditions you can put this in the fridge or freezer to bring the wort temperature down more quickly.

 

[Siscokid85]

The way I do it, is boil it, than whilst it's still hot, fill it into HDPE jerry cans, then put the cap on.

When it's needed, just sanitise around the cap, and dump it into the fermenter.

This is pretty much the way I had in my head, the Jerry can is a good idea, doesn’t have to be before yeast pitching, but obviously don’t want to put hot water in as you’ve already cooled the wort by this stage.

If just topping up say a litre or so I use tap water, if it's good enough to drink then it's ok for me

Same here, but if I had left over sparge water I'd use that, without boiling it.

These both seems sensible, I think sometimes I’ve been so programmed about boiling, sanitisation, preventing infection etc etc, I probably go too far and overthink things. When you look at some of the commercial processes, open fermenting/ Yorkshire squares, cooling trays / coolships etc. a litre or two of tap water isn’t going to spoil a batch is it. I think the emphasis on sanitisation, although important, has kind of evolved within homebrewing literature and forums to a scale and emphasis that is now probably overkill compared to industry etc.

 

[Siscokid85]

I do it regularly. I tend to make 20 litre batches in a 15 litre pot on the stove-top and I end up with about 14-15 litres of wort (I finish the sparge by letting the mash drain into the hot-liquor pot once the kettle is full enough). I then liquor back to the required OG whatever the volume may be, but it;s always around 20 litres. I calculate the bittering hops on a 20 litre batch Plus extra to make up the decreased utilisation cased by the increased gravity of the boiling wort. I used to boil water for topping up and let it cool as the wort cools, but it's much better to get some flat mineral water with a similar --CO3 content to your brewing water. Depending on ambient conditions you can put this in the fridge or freezer to bring the wort temperature down more quickly.

Working like that, with decreased boil volumes on equipment, and back liquoring and adjusting hops etc, adds another layer to brewing. That’s another level on brewing skill I reckon, you have to know your equipment and processes.

When I need to employ back liquoring it’s to correct a balls up where I have a potential over strength session beer!

Like the chilling idea!

 

[An Ankoù]

When I need to employ back liquoring it’s to correct a balls up where I have a potential over strength session beer!

Not necessarily a balls up. Different batches of malt and malts from different suppliers give different extraction rates. I found the bag of Pop's malt from Crafty Maltings and the last bag of Minch Lager malt gave much more extraction than I usually get.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Always been curious about this process but never done it. My thinking on this is if you're doing it as a reaction to 'correct' mistakes earlier on in the process like ending up with a stronger wort than intended, then back liquoring will change your beer entirely as you wont have adjusted the recipe to account fro the dilution in the fermenter...so all your flavour profiles will be off and unless you've treated the water properly you'll be dumping in circa PH 7 water into wort that is around 4.9ph and screw up your ph levels too, which will impact your beer - not ruin it, just impact it. So ultimately you risk rolling the dice with the resulting beer that wont be to original recipe.

This is why I've never done it even if I've ended up with a stronger wort than intended (though in my case when that has happened it's been a case of a handful of gravity points too high and not 10+), I just take the hit on the higher ABV. If I had an oversized fermenter then that would be an scenario where I would consider it, brew a wort that was a good 15 - 20 points higher on OG and adjust the recipe and diluting water accordingly. I think this is the way it is used in the industry rather than a way to correct wort that has not turned out how you intended...though I'm sure that probably happens too rather than dumping a batch.

 

[Nucbrewer]

If topping up with tap water is ok for kit beers I go for that, especially if I have the wort down to temperature to pitch the yeast.

 

[Siscokid85]

Always been curious about this process but never done it. My thinking on this is if you're doing it as a reaction to 'correct' mistakes earlier on in the process like ending up with a stronger wort than intended, then back liquoring will change your beer entirely as you wont have adjusted the recipe to account fro the dilution in the fermenter...so all your flavour profiles will be off and unless you've treated the water properly you'll be dumping in circa PH 7 water into wort that is around 4.9ph and screw up your ph levels too, which will impact your beer - not ruin it, just impact it. So ultimately you risk rolling the dice with the resulting beer that wont be to original recipe.

This is why I've never done it even if I've ended up with a stronger wort than intended (though in my case when that has happened it's been a case of a handful of gravity points too high and not 10+), I just take the hit on the higher ABV. If I had an oversized fermenter then that would be an scenario where I would consider it, brew a wort that was a good 15 - 20 points higher on OG and adjust the recipe and diluting water accordingly. I think this is the way it is used in the industry rather than a way to correct wort that has not turned out how you intended...though I'm sure that probably happens too rather than dumping a batch.

I see what you are saying, that is why for me using the balance of the treated sparge water would be the best option for back liquoring. That should keep the Ph relatively where it needs to be. Other parameters will be out of course, such as IBUs and colour. Colour doesn't really matter much from a taste prospective, but I presume you will dilute down the IBUs. Like you say, without a massive fermenter, I will only ever be able to back liquor with an additional 2 litres maximum, which based on a 23l batch is only 8%, will I taste an 8% reduction in IBUs?.. probably not. It just wouldn't help for repeatability or when trying to clone or match.

Just a useful tool to adjust what you end up with slightly. I really just wanted to know what the accepted way of doing it would be. with regards to boiling and sanitation.

 

[Neale]

Do you test your preboil SG? If not get a refractometer if you haven't already it takes seconds to check.

Brewfather tells you what your preboil SG should be. If it's too high then topping up at the pre boil stage is maybe a better approach? If pre-boil SG is spot on but its high after boilling then just adjust your boil-off rate and brewfather will work it all out for you next time so you don't need to back liquor.

Just seems easier to me than adding an extra step that has the potential to affect the beer.

 

[Siscokid85]

Do you test your preboil SG? If not get a refractometer if you haven't already it takes seconds to check.

Brewfather tells you what your preboil SG should be. If it's too high then topping up at the pre boil stage is maybe a better approach? If pre-boil SG is spot on but its high after boilling then just adjust your boil-off rate and brewfather will work it all out for you next time so you don't need to back liquor.

Just seems easier to me than adding an extra step that has the potential to affect the beer.

I do yes, to be honest I’ve been struggling with the refractometer. Last weeks brew I done about 4 readings pre boil and got a range over 5 points, don’t know if it’s stratification of the wort, but I try to stir the hell out of it.

That is a good suggestion, adjusting to sparge volume.

I am still dialling in my Brewfather in fairness, last weeks brew didn’t really help as it was a 20 min mash / 20 min boil, which is a bit of an odd one that doesn’t really help in calculating efficiencies / boil offs.