Astringency killer?

[Fore]

Yes, the HERMS/RIMS remark is a good one. I was just thinking out loud. Out of interest though, in such a system, what proportion is the sparge water of the total water? In the grainfather, it's about half, which means you have loads of sparge water.

To be honest, I do wonder to what extent some might be false interpretation, as I might be tasting harsh hops, an acid twang, a poor recipe, or an issue with my water. Since I started allgrain, I haven't moved house, and however much I have focused on ion balance, I've always brewed harsh bitters but great Belgians. That across both batch sparge, and now the grainfather. It suggests it might be more of a recipe or hop issue. I need more brews with the Grainfather to see if astringency is real here. In any case, one of the brews I refer to had a mash efficiency of 96%, which I had to double check a few times as I found it hard to believe. I'm perfectly comfortable reducing sparging temps and sacrificing some efficiency.

 

[Sadfield]

Does your pre-boil wort taste astringent? If not, it's highly unlikely a mash/sparge issue.

 

[peebee]

Yes, the HERMS/RIMS remark is a good one. I was just thinking out loud. Out of interest though, in such a system, what proportion is the sparge water of the total water? In the grainfather, it's about half, which means you have loads of sparge water. ...

Very similar. If using the Grainfather mash calculator mash thickness is set at 2.7 litres liquor to kilo of grain. HERMS/RIMS users will tweak the mash thickness to suit a recipe but I would frequently use about 2.5 litres per kilo - or about the same (is the same now as I "standardise" methods as I use both systems but only one mash calculator; Beersmith, I do not use the Grainfather calculator). What is then left to make up the pre-boil volume is the sparge volume (less any "top-up volume" which both systems might employ).

 

[peebee]

http://beerandwinejournal.com/tannins/
http://beerandwinejournal.com/tannins-mash/
http://beerandwinejournal.com/tannins-in-the-boil/

A good point one of these makes which should help me when referring to astringency and the common misinterpretation of it with other "flavours" (especially bitterness): Astringency is a mouth-feel, not a flavour.

The article also describes what astringency is doing: It's the likes of tannin reacting with the saliva proteins producing the sensation of (various descriptions: "drying", "puckering", "creeping", "grainy", etc.).

 

[Fore]

I'm deep in the process of testing. 1 brew, 1 step. Step changes such as acid in mash only, no mash out, reduced sparge water temp.

Still, first brew has something. It only comes through after a few drinks; less of a flavour and more of a mouth feel. I'm forming the opinion that it's astringency. But failing an expert testing alongside me, it's still guesswork. So, the mouthfeel is similar to szechuan pepper.

I had a Chinese food cooking phase about a year ago or so, first time I tried szechuan pepper. Other things can give a similar feeling, but szechuan is very obvious in this type of mouth feel. If a beer gives a mouth feel on the lines of szechuan pepper, is that astringency?