Anybody use a beer line chiller to cool fermenter - converting beer line chiller to glycol bath

[hoppyscotty]

I used a beer line chiller I picked up off eBay for the first time in my last batch. I used it in the standard way with water and ran a glycol loop through the product coils. It worked fine during fermentation but really struggled to cold crash, especially in the warm temperatures we've had recently. I managed to get it down to 3.5 legs C, but that was the lowest temp I saw and on the really hot days crept upto 5 degrees C so couldn't maintain that.

So I'm now looking to mod the chiller to bypass the thermostat so I can drive the temp down to below zero and use as a glycol bath. I think my electrical skills are sufficient to make the connections safely, but just need a bit of guidance as to what the thermostat looks like in the chiller...I've never had one apart so not sure what I'm looking at. Has anyone done this and got a nice pick of what it looks like?

I could just open it up and hack into it and suss it out while I'm in there, but I prefer to do the research and planning up front as much as is possible before getting out the tools.

Thanks.

 

[Nashbrew]

Hi Hoppyscotty

I am in the process of a similar exersise but my tempurature range needs to be around 18 most of the time.
I am going to get a different thermostat.
A cappillary type

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I don’t know what chiller you have but my Maxi310 can be set to -10C.

I recirculate the glycol in the water bath for cooling rather than use the product coils to chill a secondary circuit.

You question though - you could use an STC-1000 temperature controller to do the job. The probe goes into the water bath and power to the compressor & fan (assuming one is fitted) are powered via the “cooling” relay in the STC.

 

[Nashbrew]

I have now had a rethink on my system because I don't require very low temperature's, I think I may set my chiller to normal running and use an Inkbird 308.
without any heating at the moment, but that would give me an option of retaining temperature's in the winter as well.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Thanks both. My chiller is a Calypso 9 which is basically the same as a Maxi 310 as far as I can see, thought there are no settings on it anywhere so can't see how I could set it to a lower temp, m just plug in to turn on and unplug to turn off, hence why I was going to replace/bypass the in-built chiller thermostat with the STC-1000, the same as you might do with a fermentation cabinet fridge conversion.

It has a recirculation pump which I think runs continuously and was thinking about hooking that up to the fermenter temp control to circulate the cold glycol from the bath and through the fermenter jacket on demand rather than using my separate circulation pump.

Think I'll take the lid off today and have a look to see if it's obvious or not.

 

[tigertim]

It has a recirculation pump which I think runs continuously and was thinking about hooking that up to the fermenter temp control to circulate the cold glycol from the bath and through the fermenter jacket on demand rather than using my separate circulation pump.

This should almost certainly address your problem without the need to lower the temperature of the chiller bath or add glycol, providing you're happy with your beer being around 3-4C.

Heat transfer between two media is more effective, the greater the difference in temperature between the two (delta T). In your setup, you have two marginal heat transfers (heat from beer => interim loop => chiller bath) rather than one larger heat transfer (heat from beer => chiller bath).

That said, if you really want to be driving your beer down to around freezing point, lowering the water bath below freezing point with some glycol will be necessary. I'd be sparing though - you still ideally want to build up an ice bank in the chiller bath to act as your "cold storage".

 

[tigertim]

Just to add, people are often under the impression that glycol and chillers go hand in hand but it's not necessarily the case. Many beer line and soft drink postmix chillers are designed with pure water in mind. I run water in mine which hovers around 0C (or slightly lower, courtesy of the agitator keeping the liquid moving) and, combined with the ice bank it builds up, this is perfectly capable of crash chilling rapidly and then maintaining the beer in the fermenter at 4C with no issues, even in the recent ambient temperatures.

It's only if you want near zero temperatures for your beer that you'd need to be looking at glycol additions to your chiller water.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Thanks. I've only done the one batch and it was an opaque NEIPIA so the 3.5 degree cold crash limit doesn't seem to have harmed the final product. Howerver it would be interesting to see how clear I could get a clear beer style being limited to only 3.5 degrees cold crash limit. I tend not to add finings, other than protofloc in the boil, and have always had success with a nice 1 degree C cold crash for a week or two. I have connected the two product coils in series so the glycol gets two passes through the water/ice, bath but as you point out you're limited to the rate of heat transfer.

Also I'm thinking ahead regarding the addition of a second fermenter at some point and not sure if the current configuration would manage two fermenters especially if I were trying to cold crash them both simultaneously. Maybe an interim mod could be to remove the product coil and add glycol to the water bath and circulate the glycol directly.

Never really thought about what the target temp for cold crashing should be...I've always assumed it was as cold as possible without freezing and I've been spoiled with my previous fermzilla in a fridge setup which is more than capable of crashing to 1 degree C.

 

[tigertim]

If moving to multiple fermenters where you might be crash-cooling simultaneously, your only real limitation is the cooling capacity of the chiller itself. This is which is why maintaining the ice bank is important.

In a pub setting, for example, the chiller is not capable of providing enough cooling for a sudden rush on beer, which is why they are designed to build an ice bank; the chiller can be building up the ice bank during a football match, for example, and then deplete it during half time when there are nearly continuous pints of different products being dispensed simultaneously which the refrigeration system itself would never be able to keep up with.

But yes, if you want to be experimenting with crashing to around zero, some glycol in your chiller water and then circulating it directly (along with modifying/replacing the thermostat to lower the temperature a couple of degrees below zero, as you mention at the beginning of the thread) is going to be the best option in my opinion.

 

[gyurmaember]

I shouldn't look at this thread, i guess one if these would nicely cool down my wort in these heatwaves.

 

[chopps]

I’m maintaining 18c fermentation and crashing 2x 330L fermenters to 5C with a maxi 210 and pond pumps in the bath. Product coils removed. Feel free to DM and come over for a look

 

[hoppyscotty]

I shouldn't look at this thread, i guess one if these would nicely cool down my wort in these heatwaves.

Well to be fair I was on holiday during the main part of fermentation and when we saw the hottest temperatures. My garage gets pretty warm too so was into the low 30 degrees during the hottest days and the chiller operated magnificently in maintaining fermentation temps (ignoring the electricity consumption though!). Its just showing its limits for getting down to very low cold crash temps. it is certainly a much cheaper option than investing in a proper glycol chiller...I could buy a few of these chillers for the price of a 'proper' glycol chiller.

I’m maintaining 18c fermentation and crashing 2x 330L fermenters to 5C with a maxi 210 and pond pumps in the bath. Product coils removed. Feel free to DM and come over for a look

Thanks Chopps. I've seen this on your channel and which is why I was looking to mod my chiller in a similar way. To be fair I've only struggled to cold crash to under 3.5 degrees C...maybe 3.5 degrees C is sufficient for cold crashing and I'm being too ambitous.

I have my 80 litre fermenter and a 27 litre Fermzilla for smaller batches. I would like to get my Fermzilla connected too to free up the fridge for other purposes like keg conditioning for example. You are running glycol in your bath aren't you?

 

[itry]

I fitted a pid on a maxi 310. I also installed an external thermo couple and a switch. The switch let's me choose maxi internal temp or source(brew temp) . works a treat.


I removed the mechanical thermostat. This is an electricians work. I wouldnt attempt unless you have these skills. Electrickery kills

 

[gyurmaember]

Sorry if it's a dumb question.
Can I just connect the coils in series, and run glycol mix in them? Pre chill it to an insulated glycol reservoir, then use it in the counterflow chiller, Or in the fermenters?

 

[chopps]

Well to be fair I was on holiday during the main part of fermentation and when we saw the hottest temperatures. My garage gets pretty warm too so was into the low 30 degrees during the hottest days and the chiller operated magnificently in maintaining fermentation temps (ignoring the electricity consumption though!). Its just showing its limits for getting down to very low cold crash temps. it is certainly a much cheaper option than investing in a proper glycol chiller...I could buy a few of these chillers for the price of a 'proper' glycol chiller.


Thanks Chopps. I've seen this on your channel and which is why I was looking to mod my chiller in a similar way. To be fair I've only struggled to cold crash to under 3.5 degrees C...maybe 3.5 degrees C is sufficient for cold crashing and I'm being too ambitous.

I have my 80 litre fermenter and a 27 litre Fermzilla for smaller batches. I would like to get my Fermzilla connected too to free up the fridge for other purposes like keg conditioning for example. You are running glycol in your bath aren't you?

Yes. Glycol/water mix

 

[Nashbrew]

A rough set up of my cooling line going through my fermenter lid.

 

[Weizenberg]

I brew quite a bit of lagers,usually the traditional cold schedule at 9C.

I fitted a STC1000 to a Maxi 110 which I got for about £80 in them days...

It holds the temperature nicely (50l) and is definitively a great alternative to the more expensive, glycol chillers.

Indeed, one does not need gycol unless one aims at sub-zero temperatures for the chiller medium.

I recirculate via a submersible pump.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Thanks for the photo. Looks similar to what I was considering utilising the STC1000 and would neaten up my setup considerably.

Quick question, currently I'm circulating via an external pump. Works fine but just another thing kicking about making the place look untidy. Would it be possible to use the pump that constantly recirculates the liquid in the bath by turning it on and off via the STC1000 thereby utilising a built in pump? If using glycol then the chilled liquid wont freeze when its not being circulated.

 

[Weizenberg]

You want a uniform temperature distribution. Switching it off may not be ideal but you can certainly try and revert of not happy....

Mine already has a pump for that faucet tower chilling loop. Not sure it's powerful enough to move the liquid through my coil but its certainly the energy efficient solution.

Not sure I can control the pump itself. Maybe a solution with a solenoid operated valve would do?

 

[hoppyscotty]

I thought there was a seperate motor with impeller to stir the tank? Not an issue if not an option, I can still utilise my external pump.

I don't think the pump needs to be particularly powerful. My mate has a bucket of glycol that uses a small matchbox sized submersible pump that circulates the glycol out of the bucket, through his chiller, through the Grandfather Conical jacket and back into the bucket and that tiny pump seems to cope fine circulating the glycol and enabling cold crashing.

Thanks for input anyway I just need to bite the bullet, get the wire strippers out and give it a go!