Alzheimer's and football.

[Chippy_Tea]

I am listening to a discussion on this subject now on 5 live, its good that they are discussing the link between heading footballs and Alzheimer's and are considering banning it in junior games but what i don't get is why its not more prevalent in boxing obviously there are many millions more footballers than boxers so the number of footballers suffering from Alzheimer's are far higher but surely by now the number of boxers *suffering would have started to ring alarm bells.

* If being hit in the head repeatedly can cause Alzheimer's as they have decided heading footballs does.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I am listening to a discussion on this subject now on 5 live, its good that they are discussing the link between heading footballs and Alzheimer's and are considering banning it in junior games but what i don't get is why its not more prevalent in boxing obviously there are many millions more footballers than boxers so the number of footballers suffering from Alzheimer's are far higher but surely by now the number of boxers *suffering would have started to ring alarm bells.

* If being hit in the head repeatedly can cause Alzheimer's as they have decided heading footballs does.

I think the guys who have died recently like Nobby had to head a ball that was like lead. I think with the modern ball the danger is reduced although not entirely. I don't believe you can remove heading from the game,however.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I don't believe you can remove heading from the game,however.

They cannot remove it from the adult game it would make the game near impossible to play, i think they will from the junior game.

I get the reference to lead footballs as you read it regularly but as i said in my OP boxers are hit in the head hundreds of times when fighting and sparring surely by now someone would have tied Alzheimer's and boxing together unless heading footballs doesn't really increase your likelihood of getting Alzheimer's.

 

[Jim Brewster]

I remember at school I would never head the ball as it would give me a banging headache. Never played it since school days

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Boxers were said to be punch drunk which was a brain damage issue.

 

[DavidHatton]

Doncaster heavyweight boxer Dave Allen, retired early from boxing because of the risks of continually getting punched, watched him on soccer am I think the other saturday.
some boxing styles are defo more likely to attract head injuries in their future years.

 

[Linalmeemow]

I think as understanding of brain injury improves we'll start to see far more links between chronic conditions and contact sport. "Punch drunkness" has already been mentioned, but you've got Muhammad Ali with Parkinson's disease, Doddie Wear and and Rob Burrow (rugby union and league) suffering with motor neurone disease, multiple American footballers with chronic traumatic encephalopathy and multiple pro wrestlers (not a sport, I know) with brain injury, most notably Chris Benoit who murdered his family then killed himself.

I don't think you can ban contact in sport without taking away the spectacle and big chunks of our culture and national identity, but it can be made safer - the care taken in rugby union over head contact will help, but only to an extent. There will come a point where anyone wanting to play will have to accept the risks at the level they've been reduced to. The insurance is going to be expensive though.

 

[The Baron]

I think the guys who have died recently like Nobby had to head a ball that was like lead. I think with the modern ball the danger is reduced although not entirely. I don't believe you can remove heading from the game,however.

I agree they were laced up medicine balls that soaked up the wet unlike the lighter plastic coated ones of today

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I think there are potential benefits to getting some young people into boxing, I know it's a cliche but it really does keep people out of trouble, teaches discipline, fitness etc, only a tiny percentage will go pro and get punched to within an inch of their lives.

Personally I think in terms of risk benefit sport is more positive, whilst of course we should protect people as much as we can without taking away what the sport 'is'.

 

[Linalmeemow]

I think there are potential benefits to getting some young people into boxing, I know it's a cliche but it really does keep people out of trouble, teaches discipline, fitness etc, only a tiny percentage will go pro and get punched to within an inch of their lives.

Personally I think in terms of risk benefit sport is more positive, whilst of course we should protect people as much as we can without taking away what the sport 'is'.

This is spot on. I love boxing, and my Dad (an retired headmaster) attests to the fact that local boxing clubs have kept loads of young lads who'd have taken the wrong path on the straight and narrow, and taught them the discipline they've needed to get on in life. It's a sport in which you can only mitigate injury so far though.

Looking forward to the Yarde v Arthur fight tonight. Yarde's always good value for money.

 

[Linalmeemow]

This will make things interesting:

Ex-rugby players to sue for brain damage

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I can see how heading old heavy footballs could cause brain damage but as I don't watch rugby could someone tell me where they get repeated head injuries that could lead to dementia?

I mentioned boxing earlier, surely by now someone would have tied Alzheimer's and boxing together as they are hit in the head hundreds of times in every match and when sparring.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I can see how heading old heavy footballs could cause brain damage but as I don't watch rugby could someone tell me where they get repeated head injuries that lead to dementia?

I mentioned boxing earlier, surely by now someone would have tied Alzheimer's and boxing together as they are hit in the head hundreds of times in every match and when sparring.

Haven't read the article but I presume if you are in the scrum, especially in the late 90's and naughties the scrums came together pretty hard. Some of the tackling can be the equivalent of being hit by a car going at 30, so I'd imagine that 'whiplash' type effect could cause some damage?

 

[Linalmeemow]

I can see how heading old heavy footballs could cause brain damage but as I don't watch rugby could someone tell me where they get repeated head injuries that could lead to dementia?
I mentioned boxing earlier, surely by now someone would have tied Alzheimer's and boxing together as they are hit in the head hundreds of times in every match and when sparring.

Contact with speed and force. I don't think it even needs to be direct to the head, honestly. I played through youth and colts levels up to uni and even then with players far smaller and lighter than they are now the collisions would make your ears ring and have you seeing stars. You're doing that over and over for 80 minutes, then contact training a couple of times a week. I can't imagine what the collisions feel like at international level.

 

[Linalmeemow]

To give you an example, this is a perfectly legal tackle with no contact to the head:



I'd be surprised if Jules Plisson can remember anything about that game given that hit.

 

[terrym]

Its not so much the weight of a football that causes brain damage its the more speed at which it hits your head, since its all down to kinetic energy. Old footballs most likely didn't travel as fast as modern footballs (probably because they were harder to kick with the same force), so a modern football which weighs less may actually do more damage than an old one because the kinetic energy is has is governed by the square of the velocity whereas the mass of the football is not. (half mv squared). So modern footballers are just as likely to suffer from brain damage as their predecessors, perhaps more so.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

To give you an example, this is a perfectly legal tackle with no contact to the head:
I'd be surprised if Jules Plisson can remember anything about that game given that hit.

I am not disputing the fact that it is legal but question how it can be legal Lawes saw him release the ball in football they stopped players tackling from behind due to the severity of injuries caused by it, tackles like that should not be legal.

 

[Linalmeemow]

I am not disputing the fact that it is legal but question how it can be legal Lawes saw him release the ball in football they stopped players tackling from behind due to the severity of injuries caused by it, tackles like that should not be legal.

The timing was fine, Lawes was committed to the tackle before the ball was released. You have to allow that or the fly half would dummy the pass every time.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The timing was fine, Lawes was committed to the tackle before the ball was released. You have to allow that or the fly half would dummy the pass every time.

If tackles like that are commonplace i think they will struggle with their claim the sport has left them with permanent brain damage (as said in the article post #11)