Alternative to JG push fittings

[Session]

Hello!

I am trying to find a better alternative to push fittings for gas and beer line.

My problem is, having previously used JG push fittings, I found in my set up with relatively tight bends they are prone to leaking. I also would rather have durable metal fittings rather than plastic if possible.

I have read some really interesting threads from @peebee which go into using pneumatic polyurethane tubing and KELG fittings for gas line, the problem I have is I can’t for the life of me work out the fittings I would need to replace the simple gas line from regulator to standard ball-lock MFL gas disconnect with 4mm ID/6mm OD polyurethane tube and stainless finger-tight fittings... can anyone give me a hand?

Alternatively if I’m overthinking this feel free to let me know! My ideal set up would be a set of reliable fittings and polyurethane line for gas, with standard beer line (unless there is something better I am unaware of) and a spunding valve to spund in my corny fermentor.

I have used barb/push fit connectors in the past, as well as a rubbish poppet-based spunding valve and would rather get something which is going to last and do the job well.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Drunkula]

If you listen to the BeerSmith podcast on kegging a guy on there talks about the new alternative to JG fittings that have double O rings and are much better. I can't remember the name of them.

 

[peebee]

I've taken note of your request and I'm sure I can help. But we've got a bit of weather coming in tomorrow and I have a potential water supply at the bottom of my (very small) garden. Okay, its a river, and the way it tried to get into my brewery a few weeks ago seems to hint its fed up that I wont use it for brewing beer. So excuse me if I don't post suggestions for a few days; I'm, err, busy?

Cheers

 

[LeeH]

Maybe use a more flexible tube such as 8mm polyurethane.

This is the first complaint I’ve seen regarding JG fittings. They are used widely outside the brewing industry.

 

[Session]

I've taken note of your request and I'm sure I can help. But we've got a bit of weather coming in tomorrow and I have a potential water supply at the bottom of my (very small) garden. Okay, its a river, and the way it tried to get into my brewery a few weeks ago seems to hint its fed up that I wont use it for brewing beer. So excuse me if I don't post suggestions for a few days; I'm, err, busy?

Cheers

Thanks peebee - hope the water situation is okay! No rush on the line question

 

[Session]

Maybe use a more flexible tube such as 8mm polyurethane.

This is the first complaint I’ve seen regarding JG fittings. They are used widely outside the brewing industry.

Yeah I think this may well be part of the issue. The trouble is in a small fridge I’m rather limited for space. I thought if I was going to have to replace my tubing anyway I might as well get fixings that don’t run the risk of leaking. I’ll look into more flexible tube types too.

 

[HarryFlatters]

You can get angled JG connectors, which might help if you've got tight corners?

 

[peebee]

Thanks peebee - hope the water situation is okay! No rush on the line question

I'm not expecting much from this "storm", but Ciara was a bit of a surprise! I'm up a tributary of the Dee so get it with "cloud-burst" situations in the hills. I don't envy the soles living on the flood plains further down river though, and certainly not those over the other side (watershed) of these hills (Shropshire and the Severn, though they wont see it for a couple more days). So I'm having time-out from preparations …

This should help: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/gas-setup-questions.84960/#post-865536. The different sizes switching from pipe fittings to straight thread sizes can be confusing (here 1/4" "MFL" to 7/16" UNF). Its the same with (UK) BSP and the Whitworth thread form it is based on.

As you have selected 6/4mm polyurethane stick with it. There is no advantage using 8/6mm polyurethane (except 8mm will be a little less flexible; the 6mm stuff has more than enough throughput). For the liquid side I'm not sure you can use polyurethane (?) so @HarryFlatters suggestion to use angled connectors (JG and MDPE tubing) is fine. Just don't overdo it if preferring highly carbonated beer because sharp changes of direction (and restrictions) can cause CO2 "breakout" (frothing).

Don't worry about sourcing SS connectors for the gas side. The CO2 isn't stripping anything harmful off the connectors (or if not convinced, don't check what is inside those gas cylinders!).

When looking at BSP threads you may get the choice of tapered (BSPT) and parallel (BSPP) for male threads. The female thread is usually parallel (tapered female threads get complicated, with Rc designations, etc). I prefer parallel and PTFE tape because it is neater. BSPP might also have O-rings to get a seal (instead of PTFE tape).

 

[Session]

I'm not expecting much from this "storm", but Ciara was a bit of a surprise! I'm up a tributary of the Dee so get it with "cloud-burst" situations in the hills. I don't envy the soles living on the flood plains further down river though, and certainly not those over the other side (watershed) of these hills (Shropshire and the Severn, though they wont see it for a couple more days). So I'm having time-out from preparations …

This should help: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/gas-setup-questions.84960/#post-865536. The different sizes switching from pipe fittings to straight thread sizes can be confusing (here 1/4" "MFL" to 7/16" UNF). Its the same with (UK) BSP and the Whitworth thread form it is based on.

As you have selected 6/4mm polyurethane stick with it. There is no advantage using 8/6mm polyurethane (except 8mm will be a little less flexible; the 6mm stuff has more than enough throughput). For the liquid side I'm not sure you can use polyurethane (?) so @HarryFlatters suggestion to use angled connectors (JG and MDPE tubing) is fine. Just don't overdo it if preferring highly carbonated beer because sharp changes of direction (and restrictions) can cause CO2 "breakout" (frothing).

Don't worry about sourcing SS connectors for the gas side. The CO2 isn't stripping anything harmful off the connectors (or if not convinced, don't check what is inside those gas cylinders!).

When looking at BSP threads you may get the choice of tapered (BSPT) and parallel (BSPP) for male threads. The female thread is usually parallel (tapered female threads get complicated, with Rc designations, etc). I prefer parallel and PTFE tape because it is neater. BSPP might also have O-rings to get a seal (instead of PTFE tape).

Brilliant - thanks so much peebee that’s just what I was looking for. In the thread you linked to there was a picture of one of your kegs showing the BSP to JIC adapter. Connected between the adapter and your blue polyurethane tubing was some sort of further screw-in black termination with a spring guard... this looks ideal, but I’m struggling to find the part on the context pneumatics site. Are you able to point me in the right direction?

The coil hoses from context pneumatics look perfect for a gas-to-gas line (when purging kegs with CO2 from fermentation for example) and would keep everything nice and tidy.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Session]

You can get angled JG connectors, which might help if you've got tight corners?

Thanks Harry I didn’t realise they came in angled form. That would certainly minimise the number of loops in my system. Cheers!

 

[peebee]

… Connected between the adapter and your blue polyurethane tubing was some sort of further screw-in black termination with a spring guard... this looks ideal, but I’m struggling to find the part on the context pneumatics site. Are you able to point me in the right direction? …

I think you are looking for these pages: https://www.contextpneumatics-catal...1&level1=29982&level2=34452&stockistown=False

The part being C2X-6/4-1/4 … 6/4x1/4 FEMALE SPRINGGUARD.

i.e. You are using the 6/4 (6mm OD, 4mm ID) polyurethane tube and the JIC/BSP adapter has 1/4" male BSPP thread.

It takes a bit of getting used to navigating the site, but once you've figured it you can do just about anything. The stuff is very, very cheap compared to JG, and made of metal too (nickel plated brass usually). But watch the carriage, it's fixed price (not so cheap at £7) so avoid lots of small orders! They have an automated picking system so the parts are quickly sent out (you get them within 1 and 5 days if in stock and are told immediately if not in stock).

I can't know what you are connecting it all to (probably the "low pressure" output of a regulator). It wont be the same as me because you'll need to be as demented as me to come up with that arrangement. So you are on your own a bit sorting that end out.

As you've mentioned loops: If you've still got turns in the gas pipework that are too tight even for the flexible polyurethane tube (it will crimp shut if you try and turn it very tight), turn it the opposite way so you connect the two parts with a loopy "pigtail" of tubing. That trick has worked for me in very tight confines.

 

[Session]

I think you are looking for these pages: https://www.contextpneumatics-catal...1&level1=29982&level2=34452&stockistown=False

The part being C2X-6/4-1/4 … 6/4x1/4 FEMALE SPRINGGUARD.

i.e. You are using the 6/4 (6mm OD, 4mm ID) polyurethane tube and the JIC/BSP adapter has 1/4" male BSPP thread.

It takes a bit of getting used to navigating the site, but once you've figured it you can do just about anything. The stuff is very, very cheap compared to JG, and made of metal too (nickel plated brass usually). But watch the carriage, it's fixed price (not so cheap at £7) so avoid lots of small orders! They have an automated picking system so the parts are quickly sent out (you get them within 1 and 5 days if in stock and are told immediately if not in stock).

I can't know what you are connecting it all to (probably the "low pressure" output of a regulator). It wont be the same as me because you'll need to be as demented as me to come up with that arrangement. So you are on your own a bit sorting that end out.

As you've mentioned loops: If you've still got turns in the gas pipework that are too tight even for the flexible polyurethane tube (it will crimp shut if you try and turn it very tight), turn it the opposite way so you connect the two parts with a loopy "pigtail" of tubing. That trick has worked for me in very tight confines.

You’re brilliant peebee - thank you so much for all your help!

 

[cheeseyfeet]

I've just ordered a load of Eva barrier gas and beer line plus duotight fittings from AliExpress.

These are gaining popularity as the line is really flexible and the fittings mimic JG but are said to be tighter with two o rings.

 

[peebee]

… the fittings mimic JG but are said to be tighter with two o rings.

I've always been cautious of these "double O-ring" constructions because I was always taught it cannot work; when the first seal fails the second seal immediately fails.

But its a common construction. I think probably one O-ring does the sealing (the inner O-ring) whereas the second O-ring doesn't seal, it only ensures the tube (or whatever, section of Space Shuttle rocket booster?) is presented to the sealing O-ring at the right angle (i.e. straight, or 180 degrees).

 

[F00b4r]

If you listen to the BeerSmith podcast on kegging a guy on there talks about the new alternative to JG fittings that have double O rings and are much better. I can't remember the name of them.

I've just ordered a load of Eva barrier gas and beer line plus duotight fittings from AliExpress.

These are gaining popularity as the line is really flexible and the fittings mimic JG but are said to be tighter with two o rings.

You both appear to be referring to the Kegland Duotight fittings. I would take their claims about being better than JG fittings with a large pinch of salt, given that JG threatened them with legal action, resulting in an large apology from Kegland appearing on the front of their website for quite a long time.
The main issues with these type of fittings is shear stress, if there is going to be sideways pressure on them then either use more flexible tubing eg 3/16” or use barbs.

 

[Session]

I think you are looking for these pages: 05 KELM Pneumatics - KELM Brass Quick-Fit Fittings

The part being C2X-6/4-1/4 … 6/4x1/4 FEMALE SPRINGGUARD.

i.e. You are using the 6/4 (6mm OD, 4mm ID) polyurethane tube and the JIC/BSP adapter has 1/4" male BSPP thread.

It takes a bit of getting used to navigating the site, but once you've figured it you can do just about anything. The stuff is very, very cheap compared to JG, and made of metal too (nickel plated brass usually). But watch the carriage, it's fixed price (not so cheap at £7) so avoid lots of small orders! They have an automated picking system so the parts are quickly sent out (you get them within 1 and 5 days if in stock and are told immediately if not in stock).

I can't know what you are connecting it all to (probably the "low pressure" output of a regulator). It wont be the same as me because you'll need to be as demented as me to come up with that arrangement. So you are on your own a bit sorting that end out.

As you've mentioned loops: If you've still got turns in the gas pipework that are too tight even for the flexible polyurethane tube (it will crimp shut if you try and turn it very tight), turn it the opposite way so you connect the two parts with a loopy "pigtail" of tubing. That trick has worked for me in very tight confines.

Hi @peebee - sorry to rewaken this thread but I have just received my order of C2X-6/4-1/4 female springguard connectors and they’re too big to fit on the gas disconnect... have I missed a step somewhere or do I need another type of adaptor?

Looking back through the previous threads I suspect I need some of the 2BJ0407 adaptors, but thought it best to check I had this correct before ordering!

 

[Session]

My eagerness got the better of me!
Thanks to peebee’s previous posts I went and ordered the 2BJ0407 fittings and they fit perfectly.

 

[Session]

Just in case anyone else is following this and is still confused as to what is needed to attach 6mm OD 4mm ID polyurethane ether tubing from your regulator to your gas quick disconnect, I’ll reiterate peebee’s previous work here.

It is important to get polyurethane ETHER, not polyurethane ESTER, as the ester form is not suitable for use in wet environments.

I got all my fittings from pneumaticsdirect.co.uk, who amazingly have free next day delivery and are very reasonably priced compared to some of the other online stores.

You will need:

1. polyurethane ether tubing as above
2. 1x replacement fitting to attach to your regulator. For my ODL regulator this is the following fitting: EZ1-6/4-1/4
3. 1x fitting to attach the gas tubing to: C2X-6/4-1/4
4. 1x adaptor to covert the 1/4 BSPP fitting to 7/16 JIS: 2BJ0407
5. Some PTFE tape to go between fittings 3 and 4.

Repeat parts 3 & 4 for every gas disconnect you want to attach gas line to.

 

[peebee]

My eagerness got the better of me!
Thanks to peebee’s previous posts I went and ordered the 2BJ0407 fittings and they fit perfectly.

View attachment 25441

I try to cover everything, but you managed to slip past me there! I'm glad you're all sorted. Never come across that "ether/ester" difference, but sort of explains why I couldn't find recommendations to use polyurethane as beer-line so I'm only using polyurethane for gas-lines (I still use MDPE for beer-line).

 

[Session]

I try to cover everything, but you managed to slip past me there! I'm glad you're all sorted. Never come across that "ether/ester" difference, but sort of explains why I couldn't find recommendations to use polyurethane as beer-line so I'm only using polyurethane for gas-lines (I still use MDPE for beer-line).

Thanks peebee - Im really happy with it and I couldn’t have done it without your help.