All in one - vs - 3v?

[Clint]

Without a doubt the new Brewtools B40. It looks to have solved all the silly design niggles that the others have. No concealed element - in fact the best element I've ever seen in an AIO system with PID control. Sensors exactly where they should be. 40 litre capacity but will brew down to 20 litres. Triclamp fittings for easy cleaning. It's a high price but not when you look at it next to the Braumeister.

After brew day it would be a shame to sling that in the shed!

 

[ChilledGecko]

2Kw will raise 25l of water from 10c to 70c in 53 mins not allowing for losses to the environment.
That'll do

 

[Clint]

How long to 100c?

 

[ChilledGecko]

How long to 100c?

Around 80 mins

 

[ChilledGecko]

Around 80 mins

From here CALCULATOR

 

[BeerOclock]

I started off with one 50 litre kettle and a cool box mash tun. At that point it was 30% the cost of the grain father. I splashed out on a SS Brewtech 50litre mash tun, next as Malt Miller had an offer. Still under the cost of GF. Next I decided t build a lauter tun with a HERMS coil - cheapo kettle, one 2400W element. Most expensive bit were the 5 3pc ball valves. Now same price as GF. Built PID controller from eBay parts, which cycles the single element to maintain mash temp.

Once I had invested in the hole cutters, I added extra heating elements, so lauter tun and kettle have 2 each. That was a cheap upgrade, and means I can get up to temp quicker and then go back to single. So max wattage is normally 4800 watts. Only one element goes through the SSR. I did change the garage wiring from single spur to ring and upped the fuse from 25A to 30A.

With 22mm cutter I have added more taps to try out different systems such as whirl pool etc... in the kettle.

then built a boxed in area in the garage for the set-up, with plaster board, sockets and switches.

I enjoyed making my own system, which I can still tinker with and mod, but it has now cost more than GF. My GF concession has been to buy the fermenter.

Two friends, one of whom is a DIY enthusiast and engineer, both went for the Grainfather, with no regrets, and make beer as good as mine. I don’t think our clean up time is any different, but I save some time on water heating, and can keep adding elements if I wish.

I am always thinking of ways to improve my system, which is not what my two friends think about.

I would like to buy a new lauter tun as it was cheap and thin walled, and reposition everything lower, as presently I need 30 litres to immerse the HERMS coil, which has plenty of space below it. I would recycle all the fittings, and one you buy the 2 hole cutters you can use them over and over again (obviously).

That just gives an example of the fun you can have with a cobbled together 3 vessel system.

I like the counter flow cooler on the grainfather, which is quicker than my immersion coil.

I get better efficiency from the SS mash tun than they get with the batch sparge with the GF.

My 2 friends have had stuck sparges, which I never have, despite using identical recipes.

My system takes up more space, though. That is the big difference, and means you need a brew shed or garage. Both my friends use their GF in their house. I seem to get more hot liquid on the garage floor from all the hose disconnecting and reconnecting, though.

3V system does require a bit more faffing about, so perhaps when I am older, I may switch to an all in one system, which seems to have less hassles.

Not sure that helps much.....

ramble over

Mr S

 

[peebee]

... I never liked all in ones its just an expensive BIAB ...

Ooo, that's a bit harsh! I've got a Grainfather which I use exactly like ...

An expensive BIAB!

If you don't use it like a BIAB ("no-sparge"), and it takes a little bit of figuring out and you have to ignore the garbage put about the place that no-sparge makes inferior beer, then your next purchase will be a sparge water heater which somewhat negates the "one-pot" label.

Read what @Binkei Huckaback has to say about them (posted earlier, but the relevant bit:

... A year or so ago I bought a Grainfather as I had some cash to splash. It took me quite a while to get used to it and I've had to make a checklist to make sure everything gets done in the right order. All-in-ones aren't, in my opinion space saving as I also have a sparge water heater and I've kept my old plastic boiler for boiling my water the day before I brew as I live in a hard water area. ...

).

3V unquestionably. I don't use a bread-making machine, either. ...

Tch! Let out your inner geek! I've got a bread-maker to supply all my bread, and pizza dough. And I've got an over-sized 3V brewing system too. And I've just added one of these newish-fangled "Instant Pots" ("Crock-pot" slow cooker on steroids) to prepare my yeast starters in and sterilise the starter equipment later (okay, that's not what I bought it for, it's to help me make ... pizza cheese! Making pizzas is almost as important as making beer.).

 

[DaveinDevon]

Started a few years ago with plastic bucket and kits. Progressed in 2018 when partner bought me a Grainfather plus Radical Brewing book by Randy Mosher and havent looked back since! Great fun using all sorts of different hops and grains. Grainfather is expensive kit but has never let me down, simp!e to use. Have followed this forum for years and have found lots of useful info and tips.

 

[Pint Inspector]

Like @trueblue I switched from 3v to all-in-one system (Brewzilla). I don't regret it a bit. It's easier to set-up, store and clean. I brew more and enjoy my brew days more. The quality of the beer is the exact same. For sparge water I simply bring my full volume of water to strike temperature overnight (using the delay timer). Before I mash in I siphon off the sparge amount into a pot wrapped in a blanket. One hour later the sparge water has only dropped a few degrees and is good to pour.

I also bake all my own bread -- in an oven (adding spent grains, of course). People who compare all-in-one systems to bread makers either haven't used one or are confusing them with PicoBrew machines. There's very little difference between using an all-in-one and a 3v system other than the timer (which I rarely use, except, as I mentioned, to wake up to hot water) and having to lift the mash tun (so, slightly more labour involved). You still have to pay attention, throw in hops and generally brew.

 

[Hudson1984]

I’m still undecided lol.
I like the idea of both systems. Perhaps I’m best to just get a boiler and do a BIAB.
And if I make this boiler 3v type one surely I can add the other vessels later?

 

[trueblue]

I’m still undecided lol.
I like the idea of both systems. Perhaps I’m best to just get a boiler and do a BIAB.
And if I make this boiler 3v type one surely I can add the other vessels later?

If you are happy to post your location there might be brewers on here who will let you join them for a brew day and look at whatever system they use.

 

[chopps]

@Hudson1984 I just popped back in to see what you’d decided on, after the pages of advice in this and the other threads... and you’re still going! :)

I think I was stuck behind you at McDonalds drive thru the other day trying to decide between the nuggets and the filet-o-fish for 20 minutes. (filet every time by the way)

What ever you pick is going to be chunk of cash, but whatever you decide, you’ll love it. I promise. Now get your credit card out and then get brewing lad. :)

 

[Hudson1984]

hahah I'm always undecided when it comes to actually spending money....somethings i'm pretty impulsive with when it comes to opening the wallet, others i'm a little more careful.

The trouble is, both are good options - be great if one was massively better than the other haha!!

I think a Digiboil, Brewzilla and a decent fermenter would be the sensible option. I like the idea of 3V but I think I need more experience to truely know the parts that would make a difference to me.

additionally it'll fit where I want it without any additional works, the 3V in the format I want won't - i'd need to upgrade some electrics and do some other bits like a ventilation system (might still do this anyway) but again, with the BZ I can pretty much get cracking straight away and learn as I go.....or ask yet more questions on here :)

Oh and by the way it's a quarter pounder with cheese meal.....fish from Mcdonalds??? crazy talk!

 

[Covrich]

I went from 50L BIAB all in one vessel to a new 45L hop cat and still do it all in one as in no sparge or seperate HLT.. easy peasey. Had really good results from it so far.

 

[Hudson1984]

Think i'm just going to bite the bullet and order the digiboil and the BZ. I'll use my plastic fermenters for a few brews, see how I get on then maybe move to a conical (once I understand why I need one)

 

[foxbat]

I think a Digiboil, Brewzilla and a decent fermenter would be the sensible option.

If you're going buy a Brewzilla all-in-one then you don't need a big Digiboil kettle just to heat a few litres of sparge water to pour over your grain basket. A 10 litre stainless stock pot from Amazon will do the job just as well.

If you want a good fermenter then the Fermzilla gets a good rep and you can do pressure fermenting in it if that's your thing. I don't like plastic and anyway the Fermzilla is too big for my fridge so I use a flat bottom stainless FV from Brewbuilder. It doesn't ever get stained and is 100% airtight. Definitely one of my best buys.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

Like @trueblue People who compare all-in-one systems to bread makers either haven't used one or are confusing them with PicoBrew machines. There's very little difference between using an all-in-one and a 3v system other than the timer.

Pint Inspector hit the nail on the head there. In hobbies on general (though I have to say I've not encountered much in homebrewing) there seems to be arguments and sootiness about which kind of equipment is 'best'. This generally is a d*ick swinging contest.

'The best' system or method boils down to:

-Cost
-Whether or not you like to build things/tinker with them
-Aesthetics
-Space

Most money doesn't equal best beer. But in theory, the more you spend on controling processes should halp you achieve consistency quicker along with the ability to produce a wider range of beer styles.

 

[The Baron]

I have used a All in one for nearly 4 years now and paid under £300 for it the original ACE and its still going after 100 plus brews. I just boil the kettle about 4/5 times and put it in a bucket then jug sparge so no other boiler needed. The problem with 3V's is mainly space for me and I am one of those brewers that likes a short brew day as I have other commitments and can not spend 6 hours plus doing a trickle sparge etc. I also do a overnight mash to save on brew day time too as this does not interfere with my evenings too much as its just a matter of mashing in let it do its thing then wrap up overnight for a early start the next day.
Horses for course its your choice but 3Vs will take longer generally than AIO and you still have lots of control over the brew

 

[Hudson1984]

If you're going buy a Brewzilla all-in-one then you don't need a big Digiboil kettle just to heat a few litres of sparge water to pour over your grain basket. A 10 litre stainless stock pot from Amazon will do the job just as well.

If you want a good fermenter then the Fermzilla gets a good rep and you can do pressure fermenting in it if that's your thing. I don't like plastic and anyway the Fermzilla is too big for my fridge so I use a flat bottom stainless FV from Brewbuilder. It doesn't ever get stained and is 100% airtight. Definitely one of my best buys.

Good to know! I'm avoiding stock pots though but will look for a smaller sparge heater if I don't need such a big one.

I have used a All in one for nearly 4 years now and paid under £300 for it the original ACE and its still going after 100 plus brews. I just boil the kettle about 4/5 times and put it in a bucket then jug sparge so no other boiler needed. The problem with 3V's is mainly space for me and I am one of those brewers that likes a short brew day as I have other commitments and can not spend 6 hours plus doing a trickle sparge etc. I also do a overnight mash to save on brew day time too as this does not interfere with my evenings too much as its just a matter of mashing in let it do its thing then wrap up overnight for a early start the next day.
Horses for course its your choice but 3Vs will take longer generally than AIO and you still have lots of control over the brew

yeah time is a thing for me too, if I can keep a brew day to like 4 hours i'd be ok, any longer will be tough.

My brew day is likely to be a brew evening - kids asleep and evening is free so i'd be brewing from 7pm onward

 

[Hudson1984]

that being said.....I drink alot of coffee.... might need the extra hot water