All Grain #1 Tucked Away! (Pics)

[Asalpaws]

You should ask your local, if they sell a lot of Belgian beer they might have empties to give away. The Duval style dumpy bottles are great. T

 

[morethanworts]

It's going a bit slow now I think and I would be grateful for some advice...

It has taken nearly 6 days now to go from 1.085 to 1.030, with only a .005 drop over the last two days. It's been from 21C-23C in those last two days as well. 1.010-20 (?) looks a long way off at the moment.

I've just roused it and added two heaped teaspoons of dissolved nutrient and cranked it up to 24C. [The taste from the sample jar is very promising, but way overly sweet of course.] It's still quite foamy on top.

I have a packet of US-05. It is not technically 'stuck' as such (yet), but at what point should I dispatch it, if at all, rather than just rouse further?

 

[Asalpaws]

Hmmm... Usually this yeast is pretty brutal but I once had a stuck ferment with it. Making a small starter culture of US-05 (say 500ml) and pitching it in should help it finish. After all the flavour is there now all you want is dryness. Also some fresh yeast will ensure good bottle carbonation. T

I've had to add 05 a few times especially with Dupont yeast, it's called sending in the marines ; )

 

[morethanworts]

Cheers again T.

Following the rousing and nutrient, this morning the krausen is nearly up to the lid again, which looks good, though it rises every time I clip the lid down. Will take an SG tomorrow morning i think, and see if it's translating into decent gravity drop. I've never seen so much krausen throughout a fermentation considering such a slow SG drop.

US-05 still tucked away ready., if needed. Not sure if to use the Tripel wort to start it or just DME.

 

[pittsy]

personally i would avoid using a different yeast as this will change the final outcome (it may be great but it would be different to how it would of been) I know it's a high gravity beer so this is most likely the reason for it being slow now but when i brew a witbier i have to rouse the yeast every few days or so otherwise it's a long ferment (2 weeks with stirring , easily 3 weeks without) i would keep stirring it (of course avoid splashing) for a few days .

 

[morethanworts]

Thanks both.

1.024/5 this morning (and dried out in the taste quite a lot, now has some winey tones - presumably the raised temps). So definitely still moving. 10 points in the last four days. I gave it another gentle stir.

Sticking with it for now, no marines just yet perhaps (US-05 sounds like an American military boat!). Still a crunchy 2 inch krausen all over on day 8, despite me having harvested a load earlier (since disposed of, when I realised I'd need to read up a bit more on harvesting first).

I wish I could have made a bigger starter than 1.25L, but I only have a 2L conical, so it would have to be in a DJ for now and wouldn't work on my stir plate. That said, Wyeast's calculator reckons I could get over 19million cells/ml in a 19L batch if I did 800ml in the stirred concial and then stepped up to 2.5ml in the unstirred DJ - which looks about right for 19L at 1.085. :hmm:

Learning fast... :thumb:

 

[Asalpaws]

Sounds good if there's still a kreuzen then the yeast is still working. OG should be 1.008 - 1.014. It can get too dry, added Brett to some of mine which got down to 1.004 which tastes kind of thin. T

 

[brewtim]

I wish I could have made a bigger starter than 1.25L, but I only have a 2L conical, so it would have to be in a DJ for now and wouldn't work on my stir plate. That said, Wyeast's calculator reckons I could get over 19million cells/ml in a 19L batch if I did 800ml in the stirred concial and then stepped up to 2.5ml in the unstirred DJ - which looks about right for 19L at 1.085. :hmm:

You can step up with a couple of starters that will fit in your conical, I use these calculators to work out what I need:

http://yeastcalc.com/
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitc ... alculator/

there are variations in the calculators but if you play with the figures, you can get a reasonable idea of what you need.

I am brewing a Belgian Strong Blonde in a couple of weeks at 1.072 for a 8.5% ale. I've got WLP570 (Belgian Golden Ale yeast) which has viability of around 35-40%, like you I only have a 2L conical, so I will culture in 2 x 2L steps on a stir plate, each one will last 4 days (3 days ferment, 24 hours in the fridge), then finally pitching with around 390-450 billion cells. The idea of putting in the fridge after each step is to settle the slurry and pour off the spent starter beer then just pour another 2L of starter wort onto the slurry (in the same conical) for the second step.

During my ferment I'll be allowing the temperature to rise from 18-24 C over the course of a week.

 

[morethanworts]

Interesting. I read somewhere that you should step up by at least 5x though, the theory being that the yeast doesn't get trained to deal with increasingly big worts otherwise and is weaker for it... Even though the cell calcs work out well. Truth is, I have no idea what really works yet.

Brewtim, your plan for the FV temperature is exactly what I ended up doing.

I would settle for 1.014 right now

 

[brewtim]

Interesting. I read somewhere that you should step up by at least 5x though, the theory being that the yeast doesn't get trained to deal with increasingly big worts otherwise and is weaker for it...

I'd better get ordering a mahoosive conical then

http://www.kingscientific.co.uk/lab-equ ... ical-flask

and dig out my yeast book to do some calcs.

 

[morethanworts]

Wow! That's a great price...

 

[morethanworts]

Well, the yeast is still doing the business - 1.016 now (moved 4 points in the last 2 days) so drying out nicely and tastes really, really good.

81% attenuation so far, I think and standing around 9.1% ABV. This is going to be a pretty heady beer by the time it gains around 0.4% ABV from heavy priming. :drunk:

Very happy chappy. Given another careful stir. Planning to rack to DJs in two days time, regardless of gravity, and keep at room temp for a week or two for the last few degrees to squeeze out and to get the bulk of the yeast out.

There's still a load of froth and scum on top. This is a new phenomenon to me so near the end of fermentation. I guess I'll just skim it off before racking to the secondaries...

 

[Asalpaws]

That's great, glad it's sorting itself out! The main reason for making sure the gravity is stable is that if there's still ongoing fermentation you'll end up with gushing, over carbonated bottles which would be a shame given all the work you've put in. Once racked to secondary there will be much less yeast so it will be more difficult to notice any change in gravity, If you mashed as low as you did I would expect your FG to drop a bit more still. I'm very impressed, a high gravity beer like this is not what most people try as their first AG! I did a 4.6% blond ale : ) T

 

[morethanworts]

Thanks T.

Sorry all, I know I've updated this topic a lot - it is my first all grain brew, first use of liquid yeast and a starter, and the highest OG I've done!

I'm now really undecided whether to use secondaries at all. It's standing just under 1.014, so slowing up, but still likely to chug on for a few more days I guess before I can be sure it's stable. I guess it would only go slower for being racked off the bulk yeast and instead of trying to clear yeast out in DJs, I could chill it hard where it is (when it's finished). Would this also help to minimise chill haze in the finished beer and be a better plan? On the other hand, it would be yet another step I've never done before.

 

[Asalpaws]

It will continue to ferment until all the fermentables are used up (which will be a lot due too low mash temp). The difference is that it will finish faster if left on the bulk of the yeast, it would continue to ferment even in the bottle, which makes priming really tricky. That's why I think you should leave it in the primary FV until gravity is static for a couple of days. A secondary is a good idea as this yeast takes ages to settle and you don't want loads in your bottles (I usually lack the patience for secondary). T

 

[morethanworts]

Well, it's at 1.010 now on the finishing hydrometer and around 10%ABV, 88% apparent attenuation (OG was 1.085 @20C). Bloomin' 'eck. :shock:

It still tastes really good, though I wouldn't choose for it to dry out any further! hoping the finished beer isn't too thin and the yeast will handle further work in the bottle.

I'm already planning my next move for the second batch in a few weeks. I ordered two lots of ingredients in the first place. I'd prefer it to end around 9 to 9.5% including the priming, really, though I'm surprised just how far it's gone, considering how slow I thought it was around 1.030. So perhaps lower OG, next time, less sugar-to-grain...? I've already ordered 500g candi sugar and any extra will be invert sugar, just to see if it can get down a bit quicker. Other than that though, there seems little reason to change too much at this moment!

 

[PD]

well done Sir, You seem to have overcome most of the little problems along the way and no doubt gained an awful lot of knowledge and confidence.

Let it ferment out and then get it into a secondary and leave it well alone while you start your second all grain.....

You might consider making a blow off tube and having it handy for the next one....

 

[pittsy]

with such a strong beer if you repeat this recipe i would recommend mashing at 68c (or better still 63c for 30 mins then the rest at 71c )

 

[Asalpaws]

Nice one, drank the last of my batch last weekend, need to brew more! Don't worry about it tasting thin, alcohol, esters and carbonation give it a lot of body. I'm researching a Delerium Tremens clone, people say the commercial version has an FG 1.001 - 1.006 and it has plenty of body!

Well done, this beer will be awsome!

Cheers T

 

[morethanworts]

Hey, was great to have one from that batch of yours! Did it continue to change in the bottle after that at all?

I've had the nocturnum but still somehow haven't got around to the Tremens... There are just only so many of these Belgians I can fit into one session at the well - stocked local, and they're not exactly session beers! It's next on the list.