AG Brewday #10 Ordinary Bitter

[MyQul]

Don't get that WLP002 too warm. Or that was blamed for this...

(See attached image).

This is just some of it. It was clogging everything up, but I only let the temperature climb to 22C. It's like Potty Putty; hit with a spoon and it fractures into pieces, which then melt into their own little puddles.

It's been making great bread though!

That's like a chocolate blamange :shock:

 

[MyQul]

I'd always used a dried yeast for British style bitters - S-04. But I moved to a liquid yeast last month (WLP002 - reputedly Fuller's yeast). Now that shouldn't be too attenuative, the specs only suggest 70% at best.

Went to 84% (FG 1.006)! Okay I did mash low (64-65C) but it wasn't playing quite like you say? Beer's great, but if it was made with S-04 I don't think it would have turned out hugely different. My use of Nottingham yeast is lost in the mists of time so I don't know what it's like.

I'll be looking out for your results from culturing that Gale's yeast!

I'm quite surprised to hear you say that. I found it have a very distinctive ester profile.

The Gales yeast seem to also have a big ester profile but that may have been to do with the fermentation schedule I used. The beer is very green at the moment but very promising. I'll update the thread when it's had a couple of weeks conditioning

 

[peebee]

I'm quite surprised to hear you say that. I found it have a very distinctive ester profile. ...

I'll certainly be mashing at higher (normal) temperatures next time, and I guess I'll start seeing the estery-ness and lower attenuation. Others reckon WLP002 doesn't start exhibiting low attenuation until 68C, and then attenuation drops off rapidly as mash temperature increases.

But mashing low (64C) is apparently what Fuller's do (see http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1621/).

 

[MyQul]

I'll certainly be mashing at higher (normal) temperatures next time, and I guess I'll start seeing the estery-ness and lower attenuation. Others reckon WLP002 doesn't start exhibiting low attenuation until 68C, and then attenuation drops off rapidly as mash temperature increases.

But mashing low (64C) is apparently what Fuller's do (see http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1621/).

The (over) attenuation is a kind of creeping attenuation. The beer will be carbed as normal (whateve level you carbed it to)initiall but over the weeks it continues to attenuate in the bottle, leading to gushers.

From what I've read I think this yeast has been 'engineered' for casks. So if the user wants more attenuation in the beer, they simply rouse it, until they reach the desired level of attenuation. Over attenuation isnt a problem in a cask/keg because you can simple vent them.

As for the esters, fermentation temp to a greater or lesser extent (there are others like pitching rate) will control how estery a beer is. By the sound of it you fermented fairly cool if your not getting much ester flavour? Conversely my Gales bitter is a bit of a ester bomb at the moment because I did the following fermentation temp schedule; 23C for 24 hours, drop to 20C for the rest of fermentation

 

[peebee]

The (over) attenuation is a kind of creeping attenuation. ...

Not for me it wasn't. This is the fermentation profile (from Beersmith)...

(see attached)

I was discussing this on Jim's should you have already seen the image. This is also the brew previous to the afore-mentioned bitter (they were brewed back-to-back and both used WLP002). Blaming the huge quantity of yeast on fermenting it warm (earlier post) isn't really correct - when the fermentation was over half-way done the temperature was still under 20C.

This one attenuated to 76% (FG 1.013). But as you can see, there wasn't any "creeping", it hit FG like a bomb.

Seems my experiences of liquid yeasts just haven't been keeping to the text books.

 

[MyQul]

Not for me it wasn't. This is the fermentation profile (from Beersmith)...

(see attached)

I was discussing this on Jim's should you have already seen the image. This is also the brew previous to the afore-mentioned bitter (they were brewed back-to-back and both used WLP002). Blaming the huge quantity of yeast on fermenting it warm (earlier post) isn't really correct - when the fermentation was over half-way done the temperature was still under 20C.

This one attenuated to 76% (FG 1.013). But as you can see, there wasn't any "creeping", it hit FG like a bomb.

Seems my experiences of liquid yeasts just haven't been keeping to the text books.

Yes, I saw your thread on jims. I've lso read of people who have zero problems with this yeast too.

 

[peebee]

... It's been making great bread though!

Can't resist, as this appeared for this mornings breakfast. Made with WLP002 yeast (and a drop of beer!). The texture is quite firm because brewery yeast isn't really meant for bread but I find proper bread yeast makes way too fluffy and pappy white bread.

 

[peebee]

Oops, I've been hi-jacking this thread. I seem to have a habit of that.

Having a go at this today:

23l

Ingredients:

3.6kg Maris Otter
0.26kg Crystal 60
0.2kg Wheat Malt
55g Dextrose
75g EKG 5% a.a.
1 x Packet of Danstar Nottingham Yeast
5g Irish Moss

Additions at:

55g EKG at 60 mins
20g EKG at 10 mins

Based on a Young's OB recipe I saw.

This will be my Christmas Quaffer, my stock beer, my go to session pint.

Looks an okay recipe. A lot of hops? I'm a bit bemused by the 55g of Dextrose too, as MyQul said try something that might add a bit of flavour (next time), you wont notice 55g of Dextrose (probably not 555g either - except for the headache in the morning).

I guess you are bottling? Given how early you are putting it on. I'm a firm believer in British bitter being fermented quick, conditioned quick, and drank quick! Mine wont go on until first week of December, the stuff you get in the pubs is often made well within two weeks. But that's for draught not bottled.

 

[MyQul]

Oops, I've been hi-jacking this thread. I seem to have a habit of that.



Looks an okay recipe. A lot of hops? I'm a bit bemused by the 55g of Dextrose too, as MyQul said try something that might add a bit of flavour (next time), you wont notice 55g of Dextrose (probably not 555g either - except for the headache in the morning).

I guess you are bottling? Given how early you are putting it on. I'm a firm believer in British bitter being fermented quick, conditioned quick, and drank quick! Mine wont go on until first week of December, the stuff you get in the pubs is often made well within two weeks. But that's for draught not bottled.

Me too. Thats one of the reason why I'm currently developing a house bitter

 

[peebee]

... Needs a bit of dextrose as it's a low attenuator. ...

Watch that. Dextrose, or D-glucose, or dextroglucose, ferments out completely and will exaggerate the effect of a low attenuator (EDIT: "a high attenuator" - which Joel didn't say, I'm having a bad day? ...). It's naturally occurring glucose (so why don't they just call it glucose?) as opposed to its twin, L-glucose or Laevulose.

On the other hand there is Dextrine. A complex long-string glucose which yeast doesn't ferment. Used as glue on the back of stamps, and also to give body to malt-extract beers. No need for it in all-grain beer as the dextrin content can be increased by mashing a bit higher in temperature.


(EDIT: Oops, I'm probably mixing up my high and low attenuation, a bit of dextrose will increase attenuation of a low attenuating yeast. Sorry Joel. But the point I make is generally right and anyone else reading this should just believe an imaginary "Joel" wrote "high" rather than "low").

 

[foxbat]

This one attenuated to 76% (FG 1.013). But as you can see, there wasn't any "creeping", it hit FG like a bomb.

I find this to be the case with the English yeasts that flocculate hard, i.e. the ones that look like cottage cheese in your starter flask. They don't mess about and when they're done they're out of there and drop to the bottom like a ton of bricks.

 

[jafski]

Oops, I've been hi-jacking this thread. I seem to have a habit of that.



Looks an okay recipe. A lot of hops? I'm a bit bemused by the 55g of Dextrose too, as MyQul said try something that might add a bit of flavour (next time), you wont notice 55g of Dextrose (probably not 555g either - except for the headache in the morning).

I guess you are bottling? Given how early you are putting it on. I'm a firm believer in British bitter being fermented quick, conditioned quick, and drank quick! Mine wont go on until first week of December, the stuff you get in the pubs is often made well within two weeks. But that's for draught not bottled.

Should have read 250g of Dextrose, must have copied that across incorrectly. That's what I added.

Yes, I am bottling. I reckon 14 days fermentation, then bottle, then about four weeks to get to its best, should be about Christmas! I'm doing an American IPA next weekend, which should also be in its prime when Santa comes calling.

I actually hit my OG & volumes bang on for the first time with this one, so chuffed about that.

I have a cooler mash tun, and the temperature disparity between the centre of the mash and the mash near the walls is huge. I stir regularly to try and combat it.

My water temp was bang on before I added the grain.

I had a 4'c difference yesterday, so while the centre of the mash is where I want it to be, the edges are way low. I mashed higher to try and up the average.

I don't know what I can do about that, other than buy a new mash tun. I have my eyes on a SS Brewtech one or one from Brewbuilder.