aeration ( olive oil and other techniques)

[simon12]

Am I missing something or do you only need to think about aeration if you are getting stuck ferments or off yeast flavours?

 

[Bigjas]

Am I missing something or do you only need to think about aeration if you are getting stuck ferments or off yeast flavours?

I was going to ask a similar question. I just use my plastic spoon to agitate and stir up a bit of froth on to my wort before pitching. I don't appear to have any problems just doing that, so was surprised to read about a lot of people putting in a lot of effort to aerate their wort. I understand the need to aerate, just amazed at the trouble some people go to.

Jas

 

[peebee]

Am I missing something or do you only need to think about aeration if you are getting stuck ferments or off yeast flavours?

I was going to ask a similar question. I just use my plastic spoon to agitate and stir up a bit of froth on to my wort before pitching. I don't appear to have any problems just doing that, so was surprised to read about a lot of people putting in a lot of effort to aerate their wort. I understand the need to aerate, just amazed at the trouble some people go to.

Jas

Aah. Request for sanity check ... (2 and 2 equals ...) ...

No good; you'll just have to be "amazed at the trouble some people go to". Well at least this person.

 

[dan125]

I was going to ask a similar question. I just use my plastic spoon to agitate and stir up a bit of froth on to my wort before pitching. I don't appear to have any problems just doing that, so was surprised to read about a lot of people putting in a lot of effort to aerate their wort. I understand the need to aerate, just amazed at the trouble some people go to.

Jas

I haven't yet felt the need to use air pumps or O2 and adopt a similar approach, using a sanitised hand whisk to get a good froth on the wort before pitching.
But I also (having read about it on the forum), take out a pint or so or wort 10 mins in to the boil and cool/add it to the yeast starter bottle, having drained off the spent starter wort. I then shake the living daylights out of it every few mins for a while before pitching to try to get some oxygen into the yeast and get it off and running again.
I used this method with some saved san diego super yeast at the weekend, and the airlock was bubbling within a few hours.
:

 

[Braufather]

i've sort of gone full circle here.

I was worried about the oily mouthfeel with my first two brews(low level diacytel) and after trawling the web for days, aeration looked as likely a culprit as any, so i thought first thing i'd do is adopt best practice in this area.

so initially thoughts were make sure i do a lot of shaking, then i decided the paint stirrer on a drill more would be more efficient, but wait, a better option seemingly is aquarium pump and oxygen stone, that is the way to go, but then make sure i incorporate a filter!

I then i got sidetracked by olive oil before landing on injecting oxygen as the professional option- i even started Sourcing local welding suppliers -then I find there is as many people advising that it doesnt make a big difference anyway, and pumping oxegyn in could have long term side effects such as head retention.

So back to square 1.

if my brews were fine, i wouldn't worry about it so so much, and just carry on with the minimal aeration i currently do, but they are not so i really want to just start rulling things out, starting with aeration, therefore adopt best practice here , before looking at other areas-

TBH, still none the wiser though but leaning towards stainless steel aquarium pump with filter.

 

[DoctorMick]

Oxygen is the best option and that's what professional breweries do but it's more expensive. My preferred option is to use a pump, filter and stone. Since I ruined my stone I've just manually shaken the hell out of my FV (it has a screw on lid so no risk of leaks) and it works perfectly well, the pump is probably more effective but more importantly, it's a damn sight easier and that's why I would recommend it.

 

[Braufather]

Pump it is then.i'll rememeber to be careful wit the stone!

 

[peebee]

... leaning towards stainless steel aquarium pump with filter.

Careful! Its what I did; got an aquarium pump and then a stainless steel stone because they are so easy to sanitise (basically just boil them!). But an aquarium pump isn't beefy enough to push air through a SS stone (I had a 2um one). So had to get a 12V tyre pump. Then the little syringe filters weren't man enough, so got some anti-bacterial breathing filters. Keeping pace with a supply of breathing filters is a job (for cheap ones that is) and they do have a tendency to explode when attached a tyre pump (lots of sticky tape to keep them together).

 

[strange-steve]

Careful! Its what I did; got an aquarium pump and then a stainless steel stone because they are so easy to sanitise (basically just boil them!). But an aquarium pump isn't beefy enough to push air through a SS stone (I had a 2um one). So had to get a 12V tyre pump. Then the little syringe filters weren't man enough, so got some anti-bacterial breathing filters. Keeping pace with a supply of breathing filters is a job (for cheap ones that is) and they do have a tendency to explode when attached a tyre pump (lots of sticky tape to keep them together).

Seems like a lot of faff. Has this improved your beers in a noticeable way?

 

[peebee]

Seems like a lot of faff...

That's why I started my post with "careful". A warning. What seems like a perfectly reasonable idea is the start of a long torturous path.

But "yes", beer has improved enormously. Might be because a pump can be easily controlled (it's virtually impossible to effectively hand "agitate" the beer now I'm restricted to churn out brew lengths of at least 40 litres in a conical vessel with fixed thermometer probes and extended outlet pipes); or might just be due to building a brand new all singing all dancing brewery at the same time.

 

[peebee]

... pumping oxygen in could have long term side effects such as head retention. ...

Good grief!

I've been tempted by pure oxygen myself. Only just clicked what this was saying.

I'll stick with my pump. Never realised pure oxygen was so hazardous. I rather like my head staying firmly on my shoulders.

 

[TartanSpecial]

...well I've completed my brewday (Cascade AG IPA) and have omitted my aeration step.... the wort will pick up some oxygen transferring from the kettle to the fermenter but no shaking as I usually do. Yeast (dried malt miller west coast ale) was harvested from previous batch and re-invigorated via a 2ltr starter (no stirrer plate, just regular shaking over 2 days). Has started to bubble after 4 hours ...will see if it completes the fermentation after the normal 5-6 days...and then see what it tastes like. If this works OK i'll try omitting the aeration step and use fresh dried yeast to see if any differences.

 

[Fil]

fwiw when using the nochill method with cubes/jerrycans with little or no free headroom, i have simply not aerated at all and simply added dry yeast, this results in a slower start and population growth with little or no kraussen so i can ferment in the nochill cube without any need to transfer into a larger FV saving a bit of cleaning and sanitation.. S-04 will complete primary within a week @ 18-19C in the brewfridge, where as it can complete in 4-5 days with an aerated wort and hydrated yeast addition. (medium strength brews 4.5-5.5% abv)

Im not suggesting this is best practice, but by limiting the O2 in the brew a messy overspill from a bit too small FV can be avoided, Also i may have been lucky not to stall the yeasts growth too much??

 

[DoctorMick]

...well I've completed my brewday (Cascade AG IPA) and have omitted my aeration step.... the wort will pick up some oxygen transferring from the kettle to the fermenter but no shaking as I usually do. Yeast (dried malt miller west coast ale) was harvested from previous batch and re-invigorated via a 2ltr starter (no stirrer plate, just regular shaking over 2 days). Has started to bubble after 4 hours ...will see if it completes the fermentation after the normal 5-6 days...and then see what it tastes like. If this works OK i'll try omitting the aeration step and use fresh dried yeast to see if any differences.

I'm sure @strange-steve has posted in the past that you don't need to oxygenate with dried yeast? I'm not sure if that applies when reusing it mind.

 

[strange-steve]

I'm sure @strange-steve has posted in the past that you don't need to oxygenate with dried yeast? I'm not sure if that applies when reusing it mind.

Unless you are fermenting a high gravity wort or are planning on harvesting the yeast for reuse that is correct. The quote below is from Dr. Cone of Danstar:

Yeast need a trace amount of oxygen in an anaerobic fermentation such as brewing to produce lipids in the cell wall. Without O2 the cell cannot metabolize the squalene to the next step which is a lipid. The lipids make the cell wall elastic and fluid. This allows the mother cell to produce babies, buds, in the early part of the fermentation and keeps the cell wall fluid as the alcohol level increases. Without lipids the cell wall becomes leathery and prevents bud from being formed at the beginning of the fermentation and slows down the sugar from transporting into the cell and prevents the alcohol from transporting out of the cell near the end of the fermentation. The alcohol level builds up inside the cell and becomes toxic then deadly.

Lallemand packs the maximum amount of lipids into the cell wall that is possible during the aerobic production of the yeast at the factory. When you inoculate this yeast into a starter or into the mash, the yeast can double about three time before it runs out of lipids and the growth will stop. There is about 5% lipids in the dry yeast.

In a very general view:
At each doubling it will split the lipids with out making more lipids (no O2). The first split leaves 2.5% for each daughter cell. The second split leaves 1.25% for each daughter cell. The next split leaves 0.63%. This is the low level that stops yeast multiplication. Unless you add O2 the reproduction will stop.

When you produce 3-5% alcohol beer this is no problem. It is when you produce higher alcohol beer or inoculate at a lower rate, that you need to add O2 to produce more yeast and for alcohol tolerance near the end of fermentation. You definitely need added O2 when you reuse the yeast for the next inoculum.

 

[Braufather]

Careful! Its what I did; got an aquarium pump and then a stainless steel stone because they are so easy to sanitise (basically just boil them!). But an aquarium pump isn't beefy enough to push air through a SS stone (I had a 2um one). So had to get a 12V tyre pump. Then the little syringe filters weren't man enough, so got some anti-bacterial breathing filters. Keeping pace with a supply of breathing filters is a job (for cheap ones that is) and they do have a tendency to explode when attached a tyre pump (lots of sticky tape to keep them together).

This looks to be a dedicated system for brewing. Strong enough pump?

https://www.home-brew-hopshop.co.uk/mashing-equipment/wort-aerator-p-498.html

 

[DoctorMick]

This looks to be a dedicated system for brewing. Strong enough pump?

https://www.home-brew-hopshop.co.uk/mashing-equipment/wort-aerator-p-498.html

That looks like the pump I have and it's absolutely fine.

 

[peebee]

This looks to be a dedicated system for brewing. Strong enough pump?
https://www.home-brew-hopshop.co.uk/mashing-equipment/wort-aerator-p-498.html

Well I guess it must be a strong enough pump or they wouldn't be able to sell it. But the pump's specs are identical to my old pump (Brewferm) and that couldn't handle a similar stone. But I'm brewing 40-70L so perhaps the weight of liquid sitting on it was too much for it?

Hell of a price though. And some postings here are doubting the need for all this effort.

I got a threaded stone so I could put it in a tri-clover ("sanitary") fitting and fix it directly to the dump valve of my conical fermenter. Snazzy. But the filters still explode! Have a side-by-side piccie to better illustrate the scale ... (oh aye, I didn't mention in my earlier "tale of woe": Once I got the 12V tyre pump I then realised it will need a thumping great big 12V supply - forget the little plugin 12V supplies).

 

[TartanSpecial]

...well I've completed my brewday (Cascade AG IPA) and have omitted my aeration step.... the wort will pick up some oxygen transferring from the kettle to the fermenter but no shaking as I usually do. Yeast (dried malt miller west coast ale) was harvested from previous batch and re-invigorated via a 2ltr starter (no stirrer plate, just regular shaking over 2 days). Has started to bubble after 4 hours ...will see if it completes the fermentation after the normal 5-6 days...and then see what it tastes like. If this works OK i'll try omitting the aeration step and use fresh dried yeast to see if any differences.

I should have updated on this. It fermented out in 5 days as normal and seems to taste fine...am bottling tomorrow.