Advice please: (very!) Low alpha early addition hop

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Morning all -

Just setting up to brew a Belgian Dubbel, based on a Greg Hughes recipe.
He suggests 35g of Hallertauer Hersbrücker 3.5% at the start of the boil, and then a similar quantity of Tettnang 4.5% for the last 15min.

I have HH (2022 harvest) but it must be the lowest alpha I've ever seen in a hop, 1.6%, so I'd have to add about 75g to get the equivalent.

Do you see any problems with adding that much vegetative matter to the boil?

The closest alternative I've got in the fridge is probably Hallertauer Mittelfrüh (4.9%); and I've got the normal stuff like
Progress, Brewers Gold, Perle, Fuggles etc ...

Advice welcome! I'll probably need to decide by about 11 o'clock

 

[MashBag]

I would not think about vegative off tastes until 150-200g in 23l

Mechanical issues are does it fit in the spider?

Boilover. Hmm. Start of boil could make the snotty bit a bit exciting. Might be better to wait until the hot break has passed, before first addition.

Can't think of anything else?
I have assumed this is 23l batch

 

[The Baron]

I agree with Mashbag but you could also just use a neutral bittering hop like magnum if you wanted to keep the hop additions down a bit or I would use other similar hops to make up the AA's on top of what you have got. Say 50g of HH then make up to the AA required with the Mittelfruh
Either way it will be very close to what you are trying to achieve

 

[MashBag]

Good idea. Mittelfruh or the perle would work. Very close.

I always keep an eye on tidying up* my hops stash, so this could be a opportunity.

*Ongoing battle really

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I would not think about vegative off tastes until 150-200g in 23l

Mechanical issues are does it fit in the spider?

Boilover. Hmm. Start of boil could make the snotty bit a bit exciting. Might be better to wait until the hot break has passed, before first addition.

Can't think of anything else?
I have assumed this is 23l batch

Very helpful - many thanks

 

[The Baron]

Yes Perle would also work as it is a Saaz substitute in many recipes

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Spider capacity is not really an issue

 

[The Baron]

Since I got my new machine the Brewzilla gen4 I do not use a hop spider(even though I got one with the kit) I use the veg bags on a piece of fishing line to hang them. I can then lift them out put them in a jug and squeeze the b*gger out of them then add the juice back in.
Much easier to clean than the hopspider IMO I just turn inside out over the bin then rinse under the tap

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Beer maverick suggests that a bittering equivalent is Spalter, tettnang or hersbrucker.
https://beermaverick.com/hops/find-similar-hops-substitute/

 

[MashBag]

Spider capacity is not really an issue

View attachment 97871

Mine is very similar. That's a good mesh size too.

 

[MashBag]

Since I got my new machine the Brewzilla gen4 I do not use a hop spider(even though I got one with the kit) I use the veg bags on a piece of fishing line to hang them. I can then lift them out put them in a jug and squeeze the b*gger out of them then add the juice back in.
Much easier to clean than the hopspider IMO I just turn inside out over the bin then rinse under the tap

Too much faffication

 

[Twostage]

Don't forget that the Alpha is only part of the picture, there are lots of flavour/bittering compounds that are not Alpha acids. Personally I wouldn't change it too much.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions: much appreciated.

In the end after a bit of um-ing and ah-ing I decided what the heck, and went with 75g of Hallertauer Hersbrücker. Probably the one and only time I'll ever bitter with 1.5% hops

 

[Agentgonzo]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions: much appreciated.

In the end after a bit of um-ing and ah-ing I decided what the heck, and went with 75g of Hallertauer Hersbrücker. Probably the one and only time I'll ever bitter with 1.5% hops

View attachment 97898

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out

At 7.0% abv I’ll be surprised if I stay conscious long enough to notice…

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have HH (2022 harvest) but it must be the lowest alpha I've ever seen in a hop, 1.6%, so I'd have to add about 75g to get the equivalent.

Welcome to the German heatwave of 2022 - this thread gives you an idea of what you're up against :
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/hop-shortage.103413/#post-1242819

A dubbel should be fairly forgiving, so I wouldn't worry too much in this case. The Belgians use a variety of their own, German and British hops - their native hops are somewhat similar to Goldings and Fuggles and they face much of the same disease problems as us so in the 20th century planted a lot of Wye hops. At one point their acreage was up to around 70% Target, but in recent years their domestic production has struggled to compete with Germany.

Again it's less critical for a dubbel and I know it's not a universal opinion, but I'm firmly on the side that bittering with low alpha hops just tastes different to the same IBUs from a high-alpha hop like Magnum. And in any case I would use Admiral as the UK equivalent of Magnum. It's notable that when it really matters - as in a helles or something - the German bittering hop of choice is Brewer's Gold, the only reason it's still grown is because the really picky German brewers love the quality of its bittering.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Welcome to the German heatwave of 2022 - this thread gives you an idea of what you're up against :
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/hop-shortage.103413/#post-1242819

A dubbel should be fairly forgiving, so I wouldn't worry too much in this case. The Belgians use a variety of their own, German and British hops - their native hops are somewhat similar to Goldings and Fuggles and they face much of the same disease problems as us so in the 20th century planted a lot of Wye hops. At one point their acreage was up to around 70% Target, but in recent years their domestic production has struggled to compete with Germany.

Again it's less critical for a dubbel and I know it's not a universal opinion, but I'm firmly on the side that bittering with low alpha hops just tastes different to the same IBUs from a high-alpha hop like Magnum. And in any case I would use Admiral as the UK equivalent of Magnum. It's notable that when it really matters - as in a helles or something - the German bittering hop of choice is Brewer's Gold, the only reason it's still grown is because the really picky German brewers love the quality of its bittering.

Top quality information as ever @Northern_Brewer and many thanks for the insight
Funnily enough I used Brewer's Gold for the first time on Saturday, for a Bière de Gard and I hadn't come across it before that. I certainly wouldn't have pegged it as the German bittering hop of choice".
Just looked up what I used in my Munich Helles, based on a recipe from Kai Troester (aka 'Braükaiser'), and it was 6.6g of Magnum (10.6%) at 60min and then some similarly small additions of H. Mittelfrüh later on

 

[Twostage]

Again it's less critical for a dubbel and I know it's not a universal opinion, but I'm firmly on the side that bittering with low alpha hops just tastes different to the same IBUs from a high-alpha hop like Magnum.

Quite, low alpha typically means higher humulene for example. In cooking you wouldn't replace a glug of wine with a shot of vodka. (Might do both, one for the pot, one for me ).

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Quite, low alpha typically means higher humulene for example. In cooking you wouldn't replace a glug of wine with a shot of vodka. (Might do both, one for the pot, one for me )

I know next-to-nothing about hop chemistry, but isn’t the idea that those aromatic compounds are mostly driven off during the boil, for an early addition?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Brulosophy did something similar a while ago.
https://brulosophy.com/2016/07/18/bittering-hops-pt-2-high-vs-low-alpha-acid-exbeeriment-results/