Add Recommended fermentables

[ericmark]

I bought two Coopers kits, only �£10 each so seemed worth a try, decided to use treacle with the stout and keep the one packet of spray dried malt for the English bitter.

However when I came to make the Stout I thought the last one I did was only 30 pints not 40 pints so decided to read the instructions. Had to remove label to read make up to 23 litres (40 pints) but then thought lets see how much sugar it says to add.

It states "Dissolve contents of can and other fermentable sugars" no where on the instructions does it say what fermentable sugars to add or how much to add. Wife with usual authoritative tone, give the instructions here, she too had to admit it did not say what or how much, just that other sugars needed adding.

The next step was the web site, it took several goes trying to down load the slow pages, and in the end I did find a list of what to add.

Australian Pale Ale 1kg Brew Enhancer 2 Start 1.038 Finish 1.008
Canadian Blonde 1kg Brew Enhancer 2 Start 1.038 Finish 1.008
English Bitter 500g Light Dry Malt Start 1.031 Finish 1.006
European Lager 1kg Brew Enhancer 3 Start 1.038 Finish 1.010
Irish Stout Brew 1kg Brew Enhancer 3 Start 1.038 Finish 1.010
Mexican Cerveza 1kg Brew Enhancer 2 Start 1.038 Finish 1.008

However even that list is for Irish Stout and I have Stout. The instructions also call for the use of "Carbonation Drops" although again on the web site it does state "8g of sugar per litre" I thought Coopers was a good make? Clearly not user friendly.

I feel is a brew kit requires extras it should state on the outside of the label where you can read it before buying. It's not so hard to write on the can "Just add sugar and water". Or this kit requires 500g of light dry malt.

OK I had no intention of adding "Brew Enhancer 3" what ever that is, I added Treacle x 3 tins with a start s.g. of 1.042, but I have been brewing now for three years and I have a good idea what is required.

Not a clue what Brew Enhancer 3 is, likely a mixture of sugar and spray dried malt, but if I go to Wilko to buy supplies, last thing I want to do is return next day to pick up the missing bits.

As luck has it I did buy 500 grams of Medium Malt which I will use with English Bitter but had I been able to read instructions in the shop I could have got Light instead of Medium.

Anyway note to self, warn anyone going to start home brew, leave Coopers on the shelf and buy an English kit which has instructions on the can.

I also not temperature much higher with Coopers beer, "Whilst the enclosed yeast will ferment effectively at 18°C-32°C, we recommend a brew temperature of 21°C-27°C for optimum results." so may be good for Summer brewing?

However as with VW cars with dirty tricks, when you see dirty tricks like not giving instructions on the can one wonders what other dirty tricks are played.

 

[DoctorMick]

3 tins of treacle? That's gonna be powerful!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wilfy]

3 tins of treacle? That's gonna be powerful!!!!!!!!!!!

Get back Captain, I think she's gonna blow!:lol:

 

[ericmark]

Treacle comes in 454 gram cans, so only 1.362 kg not much over the 1 kg recommended. The s.g. was 1.042 instead of 1.038 which it says I should expect, and with treacle there will be some of the mass which is not converted. The big worry at moment is the krausen has not formed, since I have had problems with Coopers yeast in the past I am watching carefully.

 

[DoctorMick]

Sorry, I didn't mean powerful in terms of ABV, I mean it'll have a very strong treacle taste. I used less than a full tin in a 23l brew a while ago and it was too strong for my taste.

 

[ericmark]

Ups may be I have over done it then? The krausen has not formed yet, and I am wondering if the supplied yeast was any good, had yeast before from Coopers that was no good. I have lifted the temperature to 19.5°C ~ 20.5°C being set at 20°C with 0.5°C differential. The stick on thermometer shows both the 20°C and 22°C so must be quite close to the 21°C Coopers say is ideal temperature. Problem in the freezer it is hard to see into the fermentor and darn heavy to take out just to see what the yeast is doing.

 

[Slid]

The Coopers kits get very good reviews and for a one can kit, they are difficult to beat. The yeast is pretty reliable, especially at temps that are closer to what SWMBO typically wants her house to feel like. The Stout is one that many HB's have done and I would suggest either 1kg of DME or a 1.5kg can of malt extract - the Wilko Velvet Stout perhaps. Plus some table sugar to boost the ABV, if that is your gig. I have brewed this as a 2 can with the Wilko Stout plus 1kg sugar at 27L (6 gallons) and been very pleased indeed.

3 x 454g of Treacle. Oh my, that is really going to be an experiment. I seriously hope you like the taste of treacle. After 3 months it might have faded a little, but 6 months sounds nearer the "mark". Drinking it during the festive period in the depths of winter sounds favourite.

 

[Brett74]

Also planning a coopers stout tweak, mine is looking like this:
Kit tin 1,7kg
1kg Amber DME
500grams Demerara Sugar
2 Vanilla pods after primary

I am considering putting in some dextrose too to boost the abv, my thinking is this will be ballanced by the vanilla. But all this is just theory as I am still pretty new at this....I want it to have a high abv, but not at the cost of the taste. Watcha think?
I bought 2 kits so the next one will be an evolution of this one...

 

[ericmark]

I too tried to raise the ABV of kits. I added more and more sugar to the same kit Scottish heavy then throttled back again. At 2 kg it was a high ABV but starting to get the bitter after taste, at 2.5 kg it was OTT. So returned to using 1.5 kg as the instructions recommend. I tried using Brew enhancer and yes the bitter after taste was reduced, but also cost went up. So it is a fine balance as you use things like sprayed malt the price goes up, so may as well reduce water instead.

One way to raise the ABV without the bitter after taste is to cheat, loads of sugar with some yeast food and yeast in a demijohn, then once fermented add charcoal to remove the bitter after taste, then add the alcohol to the beer, or of course buy some bottles of Vodka and pour them in. But to get to the alcohol level to Carlsburg Porter (8.2%) you will get the bitter after taste.

It does not cost a fortune per pint to make DIY beer, so I have realised low ABV has an advantage you can drink all night without falling over, forget ABV go for taste, well it needs to be around 2.5% so it will not go off, but over 3.5% the ingredients either cost a fortune or you get the bitter after taste, so since not taxed on quantity brewed, unlike commercial brews, then low ABV is the way to go.

 

[Brett74]

Except, drinking too many beers is not good for shape, I won't be able to wear my favourite bikini !

 

[Brett74]

I will post about my findings as soon as it is no longer theoretical...

 

[Covrich]

Throwing loads of sugar in a beer kit will not produce great beer.. the more you throw in the more the quality will reduce.. if you think about it you start to move towards a smaller percentage of your beer actually being made with beer ingredients fermented sugar making up the majority of your drink

If you want to make a stronger but better beer, you're best off using malt extract and or doing a mini mash for the majority of your fermentables

 

[LarryF]

When I've done Coopers Stout in the past I've had the following:

Kit + 1kg Brewenhancer + 250g light brown sugar - 5.4%
Kit + 1kg Brewenhancer + 454g Lyles Treacle - 6.8%
Kit + 1kg Brewenhancer + 100g honey 6.7%
Kit + 1kg Brewenhancer + 454g H&B Malt Extract 6.2%

If I was putting one on now I'd use 1kg Brew Enhancer and 60g of honey for something between 5.5 - 6%.

 

[Brett74]

That was quite interesting with the honey, might give that a try, did alot of the honey taste come through? Is that why you would use less honey?

 

[LarryF]

That was quite interesting with the honey, might give that a try, did alot of the honey taste come through? Is that why you would use less honey?

Brett, I like my beers about 6% and these days I tend to use 50-60g of honey to bump the ABV up and I don't notice the taste of the honey at all. When I brewed the Coopers Stout with it I also added an Aurora hop tea 2tsp of instant coffee (a good one) and 2tsp of coco powder. The bitterness that the coffee and coco powder brought blew any honey taste out of the water.

 

[ericmark]

I tried experimenting and the results did not seem to follow a patten which I could repeat. Then I found the problem, temperature control, without temperature control you really have no idea if that good beer was because it was cool in the first week, or the bad beer because it was warm in first week, I may have noted temperature once a day, it cooled down every night, and warmed up in the day and really speaking I did not have a clue what temperatures the brew had reached and for how long. Only once I could control the temperature did I realise how important it is.

Yes you can make reasonable beer without temperature control, but once you try pushing to limits then it's a must. I did three Prohibition Kits these don't use normal brewing methods, you ferment an exact amount of sugar and water then use charcoal to remove the off tastes, it also has other additives but the charcoal to remove taste is the main thing. Using that method you can in simple terms add alcohol to the brew which has had the off tastes removed, using that method getting a beer to 10% ABV is possible. But it is a lot of messing around, and for all that effort you may as well brew from grain to start with. That way you use fermentables with the right taste.

I as I have said did try to brew high ABV beers using extra sugar, and yes ABV did go up, but taste also went down.

 

[Brett74]

Great tips here, will post back with results, probably in the kit review section...

 

[Slid]

Also planning a coopers stout tweak, mine is looking like this:
Kit tin 1,7kg
1kg Amber DME
500grams Demerara Sugar
2 Vanilla pods after primary

I am considering putting in some dextrose too to boost the abv, my thinking is this will be ballanced by the vanilla. But all this is just theory as I am still pretty new at this....I want it to have a high abv, but not at the cost of the taste. Watcha think?
I bought 2 kits so the next one will be an evolution of this one...

I would leave the dextrose out, perhaps, the first time, if you are brewing to 23L. You will get a very decent pint at the end, barring disasters.

 

[ericmark]

Well just transferred into a clean fermentor s.g. 1.012 so must be nearly ready to bottle, taste too much treacle taste not enough beer, and the typical too much sugar or over temperature after taste is too strong. Not a pour down drain job, but not a good beer either. To my mind it is a failure. Will not repeat.

 

[chub1]

Well just transferred into a clean fermentor s.g. 1.012 so must be nearly ready to bottle, taste too much treacle taste not enough beer, and the typical too much sugar or over temperature after taste is too strong. Not a pour down drain job, but not a good beer either. To my mind it is a failure. Will not repeat.

If you did bung 3 cans of treacle in it must seriously be very strong tasting.I have done a kit and 3 extract stouts with black treacle but have never even added a whole tin. That might well take a long long time to be absorbed so to speak.