A Newbie to All Grain - Budget Mash Kettle

[Aeropars]

Hi all,

First post! Excited to get started and join you all grain brewers!

I've done some kit brewing before and really enjoyed the process but really want to have a play with flavours and am really interested in the science behind the brewing process. So I've been researching a lot about what kit i need to start all gran brewing and was between two schools of thought about whether to go for a cooler type mash tun, or something more sophisticated like a mash kettle. I think given where i'm going to brew and the batch size of my brews it would lend itself to getting a mash kettle. I plan to get some corny kegs for storage so would realistically batch 5 gallons per time. But may sometimes do a half batch if i don't envisage there's much opportunity to drink..

I've seen a few threads on here with BIAB kettles with re-circulation for just over the £200 mark but these seem to be for about 18/20 litres. Around this price range does fit my budget though and I have a birthday coming up where I'll be asking for all manner of equipment to get me all grain ready.

So i guess I have a couple of questions:

1) If i got the 18/20l kettle, what would be the best way of getting a 5 gallon mash out of it?

2) No doubt a larger vessel would be better but can anyone recommend a kettle that would accommodate this for not too much of a premium?

Many thanks in advance and look forward to speaking with you soon!

 

[Doive]

I bought a 30 litre fermenting bucket, and added a kettle element and temperature sensor to control the mash & boil. Very cheap initial setup, thinking it would see me through the first year or so until I figured out the basics, and I could move on to stainless kettles, etc. Seven years later I'm still using it, never had any problems. I use the brew in a bag method of suspending a bag into the wort, which gives good enough results. It also allows me to brew smaller 10 litre batches if I want to.

 

[Rodcx500z]

You could try one of these a few on here have them me included Klarstein Füllhorn Beer brewing plant (Mash kettle, 30 litre capacity,THREE heating levels: 900, 1600 and 2500 watts, LED display, Stainless steel strainer insert, Silver):Amazon.co.uk:Kitchen & Home the only extra you to buy is the bag Klarstein Füllhorn Beer brewing plant (Mash kettle, 30 litre capacity,THREE heating levels: 900, 1600 and 2500 watts, LED display, Stainless steel strainer insert, Silver):Amazon.co.uk:Kitchen & Home subscribe to the news letter you get a tenner off, i brew 21-23L batches in it so say you need 29L water for mashing 20L in the kettle the other 9 in an empty fv for a 15 minute dunk sparge add this back in kettle and boil, hope this helps

 

[Rodcx500z]

And the boil is on View attachment 28976

Here is mine in action

 

[Aeropars]

Thanks for the replies both. I didn't realise you can get elements to fit in fermenting buckets. I'll maybe look into that.

Is there much benefit in re-circulation during the mash? I've been watching a log of the Home Brew Challenge on youtube and notice that he doesn't seem to sparge which I assumed was due to the constant circulation during mashing.

 

[Doive]

Thanks for the replies both. I didn't realise you can get elements to fit in fermenting buckets. I'll maybe look into that.

Is there much benefit in re-circulation during the mash? I've been watching a log of the Home Brew Challenge on youtube and notice that he doesn't seem to sparge which I assumed was due to the constant circulation during mashing.

I fitted one of these, meant to include the link in my original post.

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/127576-2750w-standard-kettle-element
As for recirculating, I've considered doing it. I'm sure it will help to an extent, but I usually sparge instead with sufficient water to make up the boil volume.

 

[AdeDunn]

Recirculation can help ensure that the temperature is equalised throughout your grist during mash, which can aid mash efficiency. Personally I'm a fan, but you can just add more grain if you have the room to do so in order to offset lower efficiency.

 

[Petrolhead]

I bought one of the basic Klarstein boilers fairly early on in my brewing and still use it. It comes with a grain basket and immersion chiller and I bought a cheap plastic eBay pump, £15, and recirculate from the tap with pipe I had lying around.

This also clears the wort and improves brewhouse efficiency in my basic experience.

If you go down this route remember that you can always empty the grain basket after sparging and use it as a sort of hop spider.

 

[Edison]

If you’re interested in the science of brewing you may want to get into precise temperature control to experiment with stepped mashing etc.
If you’re looking to keep things on a budget and you’re looking at electric elements, perhaps consider using an STC-1000 or Inkbird digital temperature control to regulate things accurately. If you have money to burn take a look at a Braumeister. There are plenty of options in between.
Start off simple though (believe it or not a Braumeister type unit can be as simple as you want it to be) and get the process right. Make a few straight-forward brews first then experiment, if you go crazy straight off and brew some failures you could easily get frustrated and give up before you’ve really started.

 

[AdeDunn]

I bought one of the basic Klarstein boilers fairly early on in my brewing and still use it. It comes with a grain basket and immersion chiller and I bought a cheap plastic eBay pump, £15, and recirculate from the tap with pipe I had lying around.

This also clears the wort and improves brewhouse efficiency in my basic experience.

If you go down this route remember that you can always empty the grain basket after sparging and use it as a sort of hop spider.

My first foray into brewing I modified a boiler sold by a company called ACE (who don't exist any more). It was basically a version of the ones sold by Klarstein as the Fullhorn, but a cable burned out on mine and ended it's life. Worked well for a while though for sure on what was a cheap unit. Pump was a bit dearer than the mega cheap ones, but could handle some solids and operate at boiling temps.

If you’re interested in the science of brewing you may want to get into precise temperature control to experiment with stepped mashing etc.
If you’re looking to keep things on a budget and you’re looking at electric elements, perhaps consider using an STC-1000 or Inkbird digital temperature control to regulate things accurately. If you have money to burn take a look at a Braumeister. There are plenty of options in between.
Start off simple though (believe it or not a Braumeister type unit can be as simple as you want it to be) and get the process right. Make a few straight-forward brews first then experiment, if you go crazy straight off and brew some failures you could easily get frustrated and give up before you’ve really started.

I actually then moved on to building a system using a DIY PID+SSR controller box etc:-






What I learned from it is, unless you LOVE DIY, especially dabbling with electronics, and have a bottomless wallet, it's not worth building one DIY. For what I spent on that over time I could have bought a single vessel system and had change.... Oh and that rig had zero automation, I used the Beersmith app on my phone for timers.

This is why these days I say to people, if you think you are going to want to do more than very basic biab eventually, and may want to play with things like step mashing (you kinda have to if you ever want to brew a full on Belgian Wit with unmalted flaked wheat...), it will actually save you money if you just save a bit longer and buy a single vessel system to start with. Spending £150 for a basic boiler now, or say £50 to build a plastic bucket boiler with a cheapy bag, then another £40 for a good false bottom for it.... That's money you can use towards a system. I just bought a system, cost me £405.... Leak tested it the other day. My wife agrees with me, I should have just got one instead of building my DIY rig, would have been cheaper and saved me a load of grief. lol You don't always know where you want to get to when you first start though, I just knew that I didn't have space for multiple vessels to do the whole HLT, mash ton, boiler thing....

It's like I say when people tell people to start with kits though. Premium kits are £25 a pop or around that. Skip kits and you can use that money to buy pretty decent AG equipment, then use much cheaper ingredients to make far superior beer and actually learn way more about brewing beer than you can from pouring concentrated wort into a bucket and adding water and yeast. You can buy a 25 kilo sack of pale malt for less than the price of a premium beer kit... lol Yeah, sometimes you get a brew goes wrong, but when it does the cost is your personal effort mainly, not the price of a kit. Jump right in, you'll learn loads, probably enjoy it way more too! Apart from cleaning up after a brew day, that's just drudgery that is..... lol

 

[Aeropars]

I bought one of the basic Klarstein boilers fairly early on in my brewing and still use it. It comes with a grain basket and immersion chiller and I bought a cheap plastic eBay pump, £15, and recirculate from the tap with pipe I had lying around.

I did think about this and looked at food grade pumps but I wasnt able to find a boiler that had the grain basket or cooler that comes with it. Do you have any specific models that you know of that have this? That's half the reason i thought the oneConcept kits were so good. I was looking at this one specifically: Hopfengott 30 Mash Kettle

If you’re interested in the science of brewing you may want to get into precise temperature control to experiment with stepped mashing etc.
If you’re looking to keep things on a budget and you’re looking at electric elements, perhaps consider using an STC-1000 or Inkbird digital temperature control to regulate things accurately. If you have money to burn take a look at a Braumeister. There are plenty of options in between.
Start off simple though (believe it or not a Braumeister type unit can be as simple as you want it to be) and get the process right. Make a few straight-forward brews first then experiment, if you go crazy straight off and brew some failures you could easily get frustrated and give up before you’ve really started.

Certainly don't have money to burn but if it means I spend 20-50 more on something then that's really something to consider. I'm a big fan of real ale (which i believe is generally one of the simpler types of beer to brew) but have recently got into some of the more artisan IPAs and NEIPAs so would like to get confidence up to have a go at something like them too.

 

[Aeropars]

@AdeDunn - Thanks the the post. My thought process has really been much like yours. Space is a premium and a (mostly) all in one system would be great for me.

 

[Edison]

If you buy something off the shelf from a reputable on-line shop you should have 14 days to assess it (probably not actually use it though) and if you don’t think it’s for you it can be returned for a full refund (possibly not delivery charge though).
Anything you buy will be designed specifically for brewing and will have a lot of R&D spent on it to make sure it does actually work efficiently and will be covered by a minimum 12 month warranty.
If you buy a specific make/model you will find plenty of other users on forums who have already found out and fixed any quirks of the system.
As @AdeDunn suggested, it depends on how much of your time you want to spend (and how competent you feel) with DIY plumbing and electronics/electrics on the system, compared to time spent on the chemistry/biology/physics of the brewing process.

 

[AdeDunn]

I have a thread here documenting my return, with photos of my new equipment if it helps any. As you can see, one of the things I have done is move outside into the back garden. lol Loads of space, and no more steam condensing on the kitchen walls (trust me, once you do your first ever boil you will understand!!!). One really good purchase I made as part of this has been a baker's rack. My system fits on the worktop (with the height adjusted perfectly so I can lift the basket without going above chest height as I have dodgy shoulders!) nicely, I can hang my mash paddle etc from hooks on a bar on the back, and pop the worktop off at the end and just invert my system and stand it on the top shelf after cleaning to dry. The difference this time? I spent time sitting with my wife planning it all out, looking at equipment and deciding what to get etc. Although, as you might read on that thread, there was a teeny error made with the size of a gazebo made........ lmao

Oh and yeah, thread title should have been new gear, but meh, guess I typed that a bit quickly and never noticed the mistake... lmao

 

[Aeropars]

If you buy something off the shelf from a reputable on-line shop you should have 14 days to assess it

I've only ever bought beer kits previously from local brew shops but they don't have anything budget in terms of kettles. They are all nearly £1000!

Is hifi-Tower.co.uk reputable? See they have an eBay stores thats got a lot of positive feedback?

 

[AdeDunn]

They're resellers, but yeah been around for a while, resell Klarstein and OneConcept stuff mostly I think. Klarstein have their own store too though, klarstein.co.uk which is where I got my Brauheld Pro from. There's also expondo.co.uk (Royal Catering) who badge and sell Guten machines (much like Klarstein etc I believe) also. Not to mention of course Angel Homebrew who sell Robobrew and Brewdevil machines (they post on here regularly, good rep), Get Er Brewed, The Malt Miller... I checked them all before buying, but a lot were waiting on stock to come in on the slow boat... lol

 

[Galena]

One good thing about the KLARSTEIN FULLHORN that was mentioned earlier by @Rodcx500z , which is currently on offer btw. Is it is an easy way to get into BIAB (worth getting their own bag as an accessory) ther Klarstein has good temperature control with a fairly accurate LCD display and a timer so you can do stepped mashes should you wish to. At the current offer price of £149 I think its a steal and if you ever move on then it will make a great Hot Liquor tank for your sparge water etc

 

[AdeDunn]

The timer is a dial that goes ding and turns the power off to the elements... lol Like I said, I had the ACE branded version which at least bundled the BIAB bag in.

 

[Galena]

The timer is a dial that goes ding and turns the power off to the elements... lol Like I said, I had the ACE branded version which at least bundled the BIAB bag in.

Yes, but then I use the timer on my phone so its not an issue for me

 

[AdeDunn]

I used to use my phone too, including with my DIY rig. Hated how my screen used to get sticky though eh? lol I don't think the super high humidity during boiling did it much good probably either.... NB. No, I don't mean I boiled my phone instead of wort/hops....