A few newbie questions...

[Greendan]

So about a year ago I tried brewing a kit up. The fermenting bucket and barrel I was using were fairly second hand ones I got from a neighbour who was about to chuck them out. I followed the instructions on the kit, and used normal sugar. The final product was, erm, really 'plasticy tasting' and not drinkable (however, it did make excellent slug bait in the vegtable patch!).
Now, I'm going to try again, but have a few questions. The first thing I'm going to do in replace the old kit with new kit, I have found this deal online: http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/acatalog/AoB_OnLine_Catalogue_Beginners_Equipment_Packs______20.html which seems pretty good to me? Does it seem that way to you experienced lot?
I was also going to go down the extract route and skip the Kit again, is that a good idea, or do you think I should learn with a kit?
Also, the above offer does not include a barrel or bottles. I'm kind of leaning towards getting bottles instead of a barrel as I have a cupboard at home I could shelve out and have the fermenting bucket on/near the floor and store bottles above it. Is there any particular advantage over a barrel than using bottles?

So, there the first few questions, first of many I'm sure!

 

[Sean_Mc]

Equipment price seems reasonable.

I started with kits and will carry on using certain kits, cause I know they're to my taste and there easy.
Woodefordes and others do two can kits, which you don't need to add granulated sugar and overall taste much better than say a youngs one can bitter kit. All depends on what you like

Bottled beer for me tastes much better than kegged, but a cheaper option is to use plastic 2litre bottles (PET) the likes of coke and lemonade come in. Handy size for a nights drinking :grin:

 

[Moley]

Equipment prices and carriage rates seem reasonable but that price is only valid when bought with a kit. Like Sean says, I would suggest that you start with a 3kg two-can kit, in the £18-20 range, lower half of Beer Kits / Premium.

Bottle is best, but unlike Sean I only use pint / 500ml glass bottles. You should be able to get plenty of those for free, but you would have to buy crown caps and a capper.

 

[evanvine]

Welcome to the Forum

really 'plasticy tasting' and not drinkable

Sounds like the "kit" was either not food grade plastic or wasn't fully clean and bug free.
The 2 can kits are far superior.
Wilco's sell decent stuff for fermenting kits, don't forget to buy a hydrometer!

 

[pjbiker]

Hi Dan,

The main advantage for me of a keg over bottles is ease of racking and dispensing. Washing and racking into bottles is a pain in the ar$e, especially if you don't buy a bench fitting crown capper.
However, I do bottle as well, it's good for storing a long time and for giving away. I do struggle with getting a solid plug of sediment that doesn't end up in the glass which isn't a problem when kegging, makes your brew look bad when you give it away. Many suggest using gelatin for fining rather than isinglass when bottling, in my experience it clears better but still not perfected it.

I started off doing a few extract brews at 23L, had issues with stuck fermentation and rubbish tasting beer and swiftly went down the all grain route. Half the fun is making your own kit. I havn't looked at your link for the kit yet, but, if you're going to do extracts, you'll need a boiler. I paid about 70quid for an electrim 'mashing and boiling bin' and was very dissapointed. The thermostat is not really required and not really accurate enough for mashing anyway. For the same money a few decent fermenting bins with taps and search the 'how to's' to make your own boiler and coolers from kettle Tesco/Sainsbury's/ASDA budget kettle elements.

I upgraded to a home made stainless steel boiler (70L Nordic) with a bit of bodging, kettle elements and 15mm plumbing fittings. Many stick to 5 gallon (23L) brewlengths but I'm lazy and thirsty . My Mash tun is still an insulated Fermenting bin with 15mm copper manifold and still use 2x 5 gallon plastic fermenting buckets for fermenting.

I got all of my ideas from using the search facility on this forum and copying the pictures. It is a wonderful resource.

The plastic taste you described, if it was reminiscent of TCP you may have had the same problem as some of my earlier brews. Insufficient rinsing of the sterilising solution from the fermenter (particulary the rim of the lid). Now I rinse everything to death and not had it again, touch wood.

Do some searching on here, then make your decisions on what to buy. Happy brewing! :

 

[pjbiker]

That kit on your link is cheap as chips and is a good start! The fermenting bins (with tap) I use cost about £20 alone. You can add a tap and an element to that later. I'd avoid syphoning if possible and yes, you'll need a hydrometer and test jar (glass is best IMHO)

 

[Greendan]

I paid about 70quid for an electrim 'mashing and boiling bin' and was very dissapointed. The thermostat is not really required and not really accurate enough for mashing anyway. For the same money a few decent fermenting bins with taps and search the 'how to's' to make your own boiler and coolers from kettle Tesco/Sainsbury's/ASDA budget kettle elements.

Do you mean like http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/catalog/detailV2_8.asp?itemid=BRU20027189&catid=OTH2156036 which is the exact thing I was just looking at getting!

I am blaming the taste of the last brew on the barrel mainly.

Also, on the link I supplied in my initial post, the price is also possible if ordering extract and hops, would I need a boiler for that? I was sort of under the impression I would not, as the hops would settle out during fermentation?

 

[evanvine]

To put it bluntly, if you are using hops you need to boil!
Perhaps you may consider that if you are going to boil you may as well mash as well and go full AG!
Just a thought (friendly smile)

 

[Greendan]

Blunt is good!

So are you saying I couldn't boil on the Hob as I would with a kit?
I am aiming to go AG when I can, figured I'd try extract first and see how it went.

 

[pjbiker]

Do you mean like http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/catalog/detailV2_8.asp?itemid=BRU20027189&catid=OTH2156036 which is the exact thing I was just looking at getting!

Yes, thats V similar to the one I wish I'd not bought. Make one yourself and spend the rest on fermenters with taps. You are misunderstanding the hopping process. you will add them to the boil volume (23+ litres) and boil for around 90minutes in your boiler. Using a hob will be difficult with that volume, you need that volume to get extraction from the hops.

As the man said, if you've got a boiler, all grain brewing is a short step away. Read a few, 'how to's' on extract and all grain brewing and you'll get the idea.

 

[Greendan]

Do you mean like http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/catalog/detailV2_8.asp?itemid=BRU20027189&catid=OTH2156036 which is the exact thing I was just looking at getting!

Yes, thats V similar to the one I wish I'd not bought. Make one yourself and spend the rest on fermenters with taps. You are misunderstanding the hopping process. you will add them to the boil volume (23+ litres) and boil for around 90minutes in your boiler. Using a hob will be difficult with that volume, you need that volume to get extraction from the hops.

As the man said, if you've got a boiler, all grain brewing is a short step away. Read a few, 'how to's' on extract and all grain brewing and you'll get the idea.

ok, interesting, I read How to brew by John Palmer. (Edit This Link:http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter1-1.html) and he does an extract and hops brew on a hob with 2 boils. Very similar to a kit brew. You guys seem to use a different technique.

I'll be honest with you, I'm to the most Skilled Dude when it comes to DIY and messing with electricity, water and plastic kind of gives me the willies!
Edit: Just adding to the above, this Item (http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Brewing_and_Mashing_Equipment.html first thing on the page: Brupack boiler) seems to be able to act as a boiler and Mash Tun, which would be useful for stepping up to AG?

 

[pjbiker]

Fair comment, don't wanna electrocute yourself.

extract and hops brew on a hob with 2 boils.

I've heard of it being done but sounds like an awful faff. Each to their own.

The boiler/mash tun you refer to. True, you could use this as a mash tun. I have the electrim one third down on the page. The theory is that you suspend a grain bag (I got one too) in the vessel to keep the grain off the heating element, and maintain the mash temperature at the desired 62-68 degrees C. I'm not convinced that this will keep anything more than the wort sitting below the grain at the correct temperature, and also you will need to collect wort from the mash tun and put it straight into the boiler, but you're already using it as a mash tun, thus delaying the boiling bit. I'm sure many do this, but I prefer a separate mash tun, insulated vessel with a strainer and tap. But, if you want a 5 gallon boiler, it is perfectly fine for the purpose, just expensive for what it is.
One problem I had with the electrim, the 'kettle' element it uses kept cutting out. They are designed to come to the boil and switch off rather than boil continuously and have a safety cut-out if it gets too hot. I eventually had to replace the element with one I had 'tampered' with so it had no safety cut out (I obviously can't recommend that to anyone though, be careful). My current boiler elements are 'tampered' with in the same way, fine as long as you never plug in when its empty.

I've just worked out this photobucket thing and will be posting a new thread with pictures of the evolotion of my kit in the last year. There are others like it on here, who I copied off
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