A couple n00b questions

[dx4100]

Hi everyone

I have decided to take the plunge into home brewing (long time Real Ale fan) and have a few quick questions.

I am looking at these two starter kits as they seem the most popular:
(I hope posting links like this is fine)
Woodrods
http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/micro/com ... t-set.html
Coopers
http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/micro/coo ... r-kit.html
The only difference to my untrained eye seems that one comes with a barrel and one comes with a bottle.

Which one is the best kit or are they pretty much one and the same ?

How long will the beer survive in a bottle vs the barrel ?

I saw some brown glass bottles and a capper in my local Wilkinsons which I was thinking about buying, but as a cheaper alternative could I refuse the bottles from my real ale outings to Tesco :) Will the caps fit etc

Thanks for any help!

 

[Shrek]

The real ale bottles will be perfect. Just make sure to give them a good clean before you use them. Bottling and kegging is up to personal preference. I bottle at the minute as it is easier to move them around and take to a friends house.

 

[dx4100]

Cheers for that... Just popped out to the recycle bin to retrieve the ones I threw out a couple of days ago :)

Anyone any advice on the kits ? and how long the beer will survive in a bottle vs barrel ?

 

[matth]

Hi, i too bottle my brews as i find it easier to store and move around, i can also leave a few to age and see how well the ageing process affects the brews. In terms of bottles most ale bottles will be fine, there are some lightweight bottles that probably should be avoided, but i am yet to come accross them - don't use 330ml lager bottles as a rule as they are usually too thin and could explode.
As far as cap size, i have yet to find an ale bottle that is sold currently without the standard size of crown cap on, i could be wrong, but i think they are all standard now, and if there are some odd variants out there i don't think they will be found in tesco.

I just find a favourite beer, or type of bottle then just try things in that style of bottle, but then again i am a little bit of a bottle geek and like them all to be the same. (mainly st peters, and a thick brown bottle style)

Caps from my local home brew shop cost me 89p for a bag of 50, and i got a youngs crown capper for about £8 i think.

Hope that helps

 

[Mike1981]

Cheers for that... Just popped out to the recycle bin to retrieve the ones I threw out a couple of days ago :)

Anyone any advice on the kits ? and how long the beer will survive in a bottle vs barrel ?

Ive never done any of those kits so cant help unfortunately, but regards bottling/barreling, I personally think it lasts longer in the bottles. The budget kegs are ok but are common to leakage and letting air in, which will destroy your beer. Aslong as you keep your bottles somewhere cool and dark they should last a fair while. Plus as others have said, bottles are far easier to move around and put in the fridge before drinking :thumb:

 

[Shrek]

Only problem you might find is that if you get any cack stuck to the bottom of the bottle. Bottle brushes are ok for the sides and the neck but no use for the bottom of the bottle. In one of the brewing books I read he suggests getting a thin wooden dowel and gluing or nailing a bit of sponge or scourer onto the bottom of it to clean the bottom of the bottle out easliy. ! have tried it and it does work really well.

 

[matth]

I have never tried any of these kits, but from what ive reat the woodfords is a 2 barrel kit, which members seem to prefer. I think that it is probably better that the coopers but i have no experience of either, you'll need some brew kit enhancer at an aditional £4 for the coopers i think.

Also I may be temped to go with the barrel, as then you can choose whether to bottle or barrel. If bottling just collect you're old bottles for free and you can use the barrel as a secondary/bottling bucket, making life a lot easier, and less sticky.

 

[matth]

you'll need some brew kit enhancer at an aditional £4 for the coopers i think.

Sorry didn't read that well enough, the one on the link comes with it, but the woodfords comes with more useful bits IMO.

 

[dx4100]

Great feedback already and so quick! Thank you...

I can defo see myself mostly bottling... and then using a barrel infrequently maybe for parties possibly.

What is the best way to fill the bottles without making a mess. I will be doing this in a corner of my study as its the only space I have and the only place that will maintain the temps.

I read on the forum that a lot of people use a second fermentation bin for bottling using a bottling aid. Which sounded like something I should look to do. But can I maybe bottle from the Barrel instead ? or is it just fine to siphon from the main bin using a bottling aid...

Cheers for any help.

 

[Mike1981]

I have another bucket i use for bottling. Syphon your beer into the bucket, leaving all the sediment behind, then buy a little bottler, brilliant piece of kit, a must if your bottling. Once your beer is in the bottles add your sugar to carbonate.

 

[Shrek]

+1 for the little bottler. Whoever invented that should be knighted for services to home brew

 

[matth]

Def little bottler, sometimes also called bottling wand or bottling stick, i do not have taps on my FVs, but is something i am considering. currently i siphon off using a peice of silicone tube with a little bottler attached.

You could siphon off in to the barrel and use the tap on the barrel to bottle. Or attach the little bottler (bottling wand etc) to the tap on the barrel for bottling.

 

[Dave1970]

I have never tried any of these kits, but from what ive reat the woodfords is a 2 barrel kit, which members seem to prefer. I think that it is probably better that the coopers but i have no experience of either, you'll need some brew kit enhancer at an aditional £4 for the coopers i think.

Woodfordes are 2 can kits, meaning you get 3kg of malt extract and don't add any sugar. This means that, just like 'real' beer the fermentable sugars all come from malt. Not surprisingly they cost more, usually around the £20 mark.
Coopers are 1 can kits meaning you need to add addition sugars, either as (in increasing order of cost) standard household sugar, brewing sugar (which yeast can ferment easier than standard), beer kit enhancer (a mix of brewing sugar and dried malt extract) or as dried malt extract. Sugar adds alcohol, but little flavour or body resulting in a beer often described as being 'thin'. BKE will add some body as well as alcohol and DME will add more body.

There's a big price difference between the 2 can kit and the one can + sugar. Once you start adding DME the cost difference comes down, so it really depends on whether you're mainly driven by taste or cost. I've done the Woodfordes Admiral's Reserve kit and I'd recommend that to anyone, I was very impressed with the end result. Never made a Coopers kit but they seem to be pretty highly rated on here as amongst the better 1 can kits.

I bottled a few of the Admiral's reserve and put the rest in a plastic keg, both were good but the bottled were definitely better....try asking at a local pub for bottles, they are just waste to them. I've just had 60 odd, mostly Bulmers bottles from a pub. The Bulmers are particularly good because they hold a full pint (not 500ml) and the labels come off easily if you bung 'em in the dishwasher.

Make sure you get a lever crown capper not one of the really cheap hammer on ones, and +1 on the 'Little Bottler'.

 

[dx4100]

Some fantastic advice on here guys, thanks!

Using the barrel to bottle from seems like the best cost effective way to do it if its possible. So will give that ago.

Think I will go with the Woodfordes kit.

Cheers for your help!

Taste is the main thing for me over the cost. Although I am expecting even the £20 kits are much cheaper by default than buying them from Tesco / pub :) So will not have a problem getting the two tin kits etc, but will try out the cheaper ones no doubt as well.

Besides adding on the little bottler and bottle capper... is there anything else I need ?

Kits comes with:

* Woodfordes Wherry Premium Beer kit
* Barrel with Pin Valve Cap
* 33Ltr Fermenting bin + airlock
* Paddle
* Syphon
* Steriliser
* Hydrometer
* Thermometer
* Trail Jar
* 1 Gas charge + converter

 

[Shrek]

From what I have read on here you might be better off buying a pack of safale s04 yeast to throw in there as some people have reported stuck fermentations. For the £1.50 it costs it could save you a lot of hassle. :thumb:

 

[dx4100]

From what I have read on here you might be better off buying a pack of safale s04 yeast to throw in there as some people have reported stuck fermentations. For the £1.50 it costs it could save you a lot of hassle. :thumb:

At what stage /point would you add it ?

 

[Dave1970]

You'd just add the yeast at the start of fermentation as you would with the kit yeast. A lot of people seem to struggle with Woodfordes kits sticking at about 1020 gravity, mine did a bit but a stir and a slight temp increase got it going again. I guess that better yeast is less likely to do this.

If the barrel is one of the budget ones then then I think the standard tap on them is the same as the one that comes with the little bottler so it should just push straight on & be ready to go

 

[Mike1981]

Just use the s-04 instead of the supplied yeast, ive used s-o4 loads of times its a good yeast. Follow the instructions to the letter but your just putting this yeast in and not the one that comes with the kit.

 

[dx4100]

http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/safale-s-04-yeast.html

I take it this is the stuff.

Suitable for up to 5 gallons of wort.

So would I use the whole packet per brew kit or will this do a number of kits ?

 

[shearclass]

you'll need some brew kit enhancer at an aditional £4 for the coopers i think

That is cheap, would you mind telling me where you get brew enhancer from at that price?

Cheers