A bit of a worry about my Wherry.

[brianc]

Hello all. I tried this post earlier in the week but realised I'd got it in the wrong section. My kit is still stuck at 1020 after a good stir. So would appreciate any advice.
Best regards Brian.


Hello I also recently started a Wherry kit 13 days ago and after reading various comments on the forum I wasn't over concerned when it took a while to get going. Perhaps 3 days!
Anyway since then it has fermented but without the usual load of foam on top that I'm used to seeing. However last Saturday it seemed to have stopped any form of activity, because I'm using a fermenting bucket I lifted the lid just enough to drop my hydrometer in and the reading was and today still is 1020 where the target reading is 1014.
So I'm concerned that it has stuck and again I have seen forum posts that say to be patient but not seeing any drop on the hydrometer over the last3 days got me concerned. The temperature has been maintained at 21 degrees according to my thermometer so I'm sure that should be ok.
I suppose my next move would be to give it a good stir to see if it gets going again.
However I would like to ask a question, because the kit gets good reviews I know it's a good product but if I did it again I would be greatly tempted to buy another beer yeast from the home brew shop, because reading reviews it seems the yeast supplied could be temperamental in some way.
But! Would another beer yeast completely change the finished brew or in fact spoil it.
Or am I being impatient.
Thanks to all and best wishes.
Brian

 

[Hopping_Mad]

Right, first issue! You've done the right thing waiting some time, then after it appearing to stick again stirring gently (try not to splash when you have to do this - it increases chance of pollutants!). I'd try getting the temperature up overnight to 24 -26 C for a brief period, see if it kick starts it again - this has worked for me once in the past. Pitching some yeast nutrient (available from Wilkos or LHBS) has also helped in the past. Last option is pitch some fresh yeast (good one from your LHBS, the folks there will probably be able to recommend one for a Wherry - maybe Windsor?).

I tend to keep a spare yeast sachet and yeast nutrient to hand for the occasional stuck fermentation!

Have a search on tinternet for info on yeast types and their characteristics, attenuation (sugar fermenting powers!) and flocculation (settling/clearing abilities!) and how they may affect your final beer flavour.

Finally, some, but not all, brewers recommend rehydrating your yeast before pitching it to give it the best start. There's an article somewhere on here informing you how to do thus, but I'm so dog tired I'm off to bed, so you will need to use the search facility.

DONT PANIC - you may still be able to get the FG down! If not, bottle/keg as normal and leave it 2 months. It may still come out good!

 

[brianc]

Right, first issue! You've done the right thing waiting some time, then after it appearing to stick again stirring gently (try not to splash when you have to do this - it increases chance of pollutants!). I'd try getting the temperature up overnight to 24 -26 C for a brief period, see if it kick starts it again - this has worked for me once in the past. Pitching some yeast nutrient (available from Wilkos or LHBS) has also helped in the past. Last option is pitch some fresh yeast (good one from your LHBS, the folks there will probably be able to recommend one for a Wherry - maybe Windsor?).

I tend to keep a spare yeast sachet and yeast nutrient to hand for the occasional stuck fermentation!

Have a search on tinternet for info on yeast types and their characteristics, attenuation (sugar fermenting powers!) and flocculation (settling/clearing abilities!) and how they may affect your final beer flavour.

Finally, some, but not all, brewers recommend rehydrating your yeast before pitching it to give it the best start. There's an article somewhere on here informing you how to do thus, but I'm so dog tired I'm off to bed, so you will need to use the search facility.

DONT PANIC - you may still be able to get the FG down! If not, bottle/keg as normal and leave it 2 months. It may still come out good!

Thank you for your detailed reply. It's almost a week now since I thought the brew had stopped and despite a good stir still nothing and the reading is still the same.
I also must admit to really giving a good stir including splashing etc I hadn't read your post then so didn't think about contamination.
However I dipped an eggcup into the brew and had a taste this morning. It doesn't taste off at all but what I would call a bit thin on taste really.
I think I will bottle it and give it 2 months as you suggest to see the result. I suppose had I not had an hydrometer then I would have had it bottled by now with no concern.

It's my first home brew disaster (or at least major concern) so I will have to put it down to the learning curve. I'm pretty confident I've sterilised and rinsed everything carefully prior to starting. My major frustration is something everyone can relate to and that's cleaning & sterilising 40 bottles which is a pain even when the brew going into them isn't in any form of doubt.

Having read reviews I'm sure the woodfords kits are good but I won't chance them again. I know my inexperience could have contributed to the problem but the combination of other reviews questioning the yeast provided and my own experience of the slow start and the less than enthusiastic fermenting, then stopping on me it's dampened my enthusiasm.

Especially after a previous Coopers Stout kit fermented to such an extent I thought it was trying to escape my brew bucket.

Again thank you for your reply.
Best regards Brian

 

[Hopping_Mad]

However I dipped an eggcup into the brew and had a taste this morning. It doesn't taste off at all but what I would call a bit thin on taste really.
I think I will bottle it and give it 2 months as you suggest to see the result. I suppose had I not had an hydrometer then I would have had it bottled by now with no concern.

It's my first home brew disaster (or at least major concern) so I will have to put it down to the learning curve. I'm pretty confident I've sterilised and rinsed everything carefully prior to starting. My major frustration is something everyone can relate to and that's cleaning & sterilising 40 bottles which is a pain even when the brew going into them isn't in any form of doubt.

Having read reviews I'm sure the woodfords kits are good but I won't chance them again.

In no way is this a disaster! It's not contimated - so your cleanliness was fine! That's good.

So the FG hasn't got down as low as you would wish - bottle it and see what happens. I'm drinking a Wherry right now and I've checked my notes - I only got down to 1012. It's sweeter than I like but I'm still enjoying it!

I took delivery do my no rinse sanitiser and my bottle rinser this week and bottled a batch last night. I turned a 2.5 hour job into a 1 hour job!!! It's the best £15 I have spent in homebrewing!

All kits will get stuck occasionally - don't have a personal moratorium on Woodfordes or Wherry in particular - stuff just happens sometimes! Experiment with other yeast rather than excluding particular kits.

So, as a reminder, this is in no way a disaster! And remember, when something does go badly wrong, remember it's happened to us all before. Just learn and move onto the next batch! It's that or drink lager, or pay £1.80 a bottle!!!

Keep learning and keep brewing my friend!

 

[Slid]

Here's an odd sounding suggestion.

Put the FV somewhere slighlty warmer ~ 22C and add 1L of hot water with 200g of sugar dissolved, plus yeast nutrient if available, gently onto the top of the brew.
Give it a quick swirl with a sterile spoon and see if anything good happens.
My guess is that the Wherry yeast provided prefers warmer fermenting temperatures and quite often needs a kick re-start.

 

[brianc]

Thanks to everyone for your help. I've only just spotted the latest.
I've actually bottled the brew this morning and it's now stood in the kitchen for a week before I put it in the garage.
Like I mentioned earlier I've had another taste and I'm sure it's not infected at all so I'm going to take your advice and leave it alone for a couple of months.

However I'm very interested in the bottle washer that has been spoken about.
I've had a quick browse on the internet at them and they seem to be reasonably priced especially if they save time.
However one review implied that a modification would be required to use with the PET Bottles. Well I've now got four boxes of the Coopers 500 ml beer bottles so I'm wondering if anyone also uses a rinser successfully with these types of bottles and could give me details please.

Again thanks to everyone who replied to my original query. But for your advice I believe I would have dumped this batch.
Best regards to all Brian

 

[BenM41]

to jump in here: i had problems with my wherry (its detailed in another thread, somewhere) and ended up pitching 3 times in the assumption that it was stuck or dead (i hadnt joined the forum or heard about ways of kick starting yeast until that point). i threw it in a barrel with some brewing sugar to condition - been in there 3 weeks (1 in warmth, 2 in cool) and its still cloudy and tbh, tastes a bit rancid imo. never tasted a wherry, but know that its quite hoppy and citrus - perhaps mine is somewhere close to what it should be like, but im not liking it atm. gonna leave it in there for another month to see if it improves, then give it up as a bad job! :-?

(my 'copper hoppy' kit i got cheap from wilko is tasting amazing with the substitution of 500g of sugar for Medium dry malt. much better than the wherry. i do like darker ales though, so perhaps my own preference in tastes comes into play here).

 

[brianc]

to jump in here: i had problems with my wherry (its detailed in another thread, somewhere) and ended up pitching 3 times in the assumption that it was stuck or dead (i hadnt joined the forum or heard about ways of kick starting yeast until that point). i threw it in a barrel with some brewing sugar to condition - been in there 3 weeks (1 in warmth, 2 in cool) and its still cloudy and tbh, tastes a bit rancid imo. never tasted a wherry, but know that its quite hoppy and citrus - perhaps mine is somewhere close to what it should be like, but im not liking it atm. gonna leave it in there for another month to see if it improves, then give it up as a bad job! :-?

(my 'copper hoppy' kit i got cheap from wilko is tasting amazing with the substitution of 500g of sugar for Medium dry malt. much better than the wherry. i do like darker ales though, so perhaps my own preference in tastes comes into play here).

Well I hope your brew turns into something you are happy with.
I've bottled mine so I'm going to give it a couple of months to see the results.
I've also read on the forum that someone else had an issue with it not clearing but still thought it was very drinkable.
I haven't considered using a bulk keg. I prefer the convenience of bottles but hate the two hours plus each time cleaning and sterilising. I'm hoping for some advice regarding the bottle rinsers I may invest in one of those.
Cheers for now
Brian

 

[Hopping_Mad]

to jump in here: i had problems with my wherry (its detailed in another thread, somewhere) and ended up pitching 3 times in the assumption that it was stuck or dead (i hadnt joined the forum or heard about ways of kick starting yeast until that point). i threw it in a barrel with some brewing sugar to condition - been in there 3 weeks (1 in warmth, 2 in cool) and its still cloudy and tbh, tastes a bit rancid imo. never tasted a wherry, but know that its quite hoppy and citrus - perhaps mine is somewhere close to what it should be like, but im not liking it atm. gonna leave it in there for another month to see if it improves, then give it up as a bad job! :-?

(my 'copper hoppy' kit i got cheap from wilko is tasting amazing with the substitution of 500g of sugar for Medium dry malt. much better than the wherry. i do like darker ales though, so perhaps my own preference in tastes comes into play here).

If it's tasting rancid, it ain't sounding good! Even the best home brewers have had a bad batch at some point - just the way it is!

I get round the PET bottle issue and the rinser by holding it slightly off centre - a miraculous modification which catches the lug and seems to work really well! Takes a couple of practices to get right but then rinser cleaned PET bottles just as well as any other! Amazing! :thumb:

 

[brianc]

Well it's a few weeks now since I had my concerns over my Woodfords Wherry kit.
At the time I bottled it with reluctance and no real confidence. (I was ready if I'm honest to pour it away)
However people commenting told me to just give it time.
Thank you all for your advice because I put three bottles of this in the fridge yesterday and I've tried them tonight and I must say I'm very impressed. It's not as clear yet as other brews I've done but I suspect that will improve by leaving it a while longer. I did intend leaving it at least three months but the bottles I've tried tonight were really nice so I may just keep sampling it.
I'm really happy I was totally wrong in assuming that the brew had failed.
I'm going to go to Wilkinsons to see if the discount is still on and get another kit of Wherry tomorrow!
Thanks again for all the advice
Best regards Brian

 

[Chris2304]

My first Wherry has stuck - a reading of 1:18-ish for three days running (days 5-7 of the brew).

I thought that (1) it's something that Woodfordes would have fixed by now and (2) not something that would have been a problem in summer temperatures.

Anyway, I've given it a stir to see if that helps get things going again

 

[Slid]

Hi Chris,

As you say, your brew should being going like the clappers right now.

So - first guess is maybe your readings are messed up? CO2 bubbles stick to a hydrometer and push it up to give a false reading. shaking the sample first and swirling the hydrometer are a way of getting a more reliable reading.

Second guess is that if you added the recommended amount of boiling water in the first place you may have killed many of the viable yeast cells in the provided sachet, by pitching at too high a temperature for them to survive at. 25C and above will really stress the yeast.

I'm no great expert on these things, but, if you can arrange somehow to cool it down a bit to ~ 20C that might be a start. Putting it in a bath and adding cold water is one way o get the temp down, putting wet towels around it is another. If nothing good happens, you might need another yeast, if you have a LHBS.

 

[Chris2304]

Thanks Slid - your second suggestion could well be right.

My wife broke my thermometer the day of the brew (don't ask!) so there was a bit of guesstimating on temp. That said, the first 3 days saw a vey strong fermentation with lots of obvious activity, so I'm not sure.

I've given the FV a stir, to see if that does the trick. If it's still stuck at 1:18 in a couple of days, then I'll try pitching some new yeast and some yeast nutrient as a final long-shot.

For what it's worth, it smells lovely!

 

[Chris2304]

So, giving it a stir seems to have done the trick. I don't have an airlock (1) but the lid of the FV is bulging, so some CO2 is obviously being produced and (2) the gravity has dropped by 0.02 or so.

Fingers crossed, but it looks like the brew us back on!