1BBL Systems

[-Bezza-]

I'm interested in how you get on with this as this is something I would like to do too, although it would be a few years away yet. I know nothing about larger scale brewing and would have exactly the same questions you have around controlling fermentation temperatures, so keeping an interested eye on responses and any other challenges you face.

For what it's worth, my master plan was to speak to some of the local independent pubs about whether they had unused space in which a micro brewery could be set up. They provide the space, I provide the equipment and we'd come up with a plan about how best to sell the beer. I think that could be done in a way that didn't mean you had the pressures of needing to produce vast quantities and becoming a chore. I think the licensing and planning aspects are easier if you're part of a pub. Alternative is to have the pub fund the equipment etc and just pay you a nominal wage or profit-share on the beer.

 

[JonBrew]

I have no direct experience of brewing on the scale you're talking about but I've looked into it (more just for fun) in the past and have heard some stuff on the subject online and from podcasts etc.

If you've looking to go for 4 FVs I guess the obvious options for managing the fermentation is fridges with standard FVs or specialist type equipment to run glycol through a cooling jacket or internal coil? Obviously the latter is $$$$. In terms of fridges, I've seen commercial drink fridges used by very small micros to house their FVs.

Another option, but possibly a controversial one, would be to section off and enclose/insulate a section of your garage to turn it into a cool room. I guess you would then hook up heating sources to the FVs so each could be controlled independently. Obviously this is essentially ambient cooling and that carries possible complications and, arguably, quality issues but might be worth consideration depending on how big your garage is. I head of this method discussed on a series of podcasts on the Brew Strong show about going pro and in this instance they were referring to this being an option for nano breweries.

 

[lancon]

No, not necessarily, I have a half barrel system, running for two years till neighbor complained to council, I was told that I would have to apply for planning, there was a question of what I was applying for, change of use? no, because I still lived there it wasn't taking over the house, it was decided that certificate of existing lawful use for part of dwelling to be used as brewery was to be applied for, though it needed further time for 'existing lawful use' to be qualified. The application was rejected because the brewery wasn't deemed big enough. This was a shock at first but then it was pointed out to me by the council that meant I could continue, which I did and am still doing. I have had another complaint since regarding smell, same neighbour (which the original planning enforcement officer said she would do as she was of that ilk). I paid my £385 + extras for maps &etc, it wasn't needed.

 

[IainM]

Another option, but possibly a controversial one, would be to section off and enclose/insulate a section of your garage to turn it into a cool room. I guess you would then hook up heating sources to the FVs so each could be controlled independently. Obviously this is essentially ambient cooling and that carries possible complications and, arguably, quality issues but might be worth consideration depending on how big your garage is. I head of this method discussed on a series of podcasts on the Brew Strong show about going pro and in this instance they were referring to this being an option for nano breweries.

I guess this situation could be handled well using a brewpi or similar, with a probe in a thermowell and another in the ambient environment, where the algorithm quickly learns how to adjust the environment to keep the temperate inside the fv under tight control, like a self-programming PID.

 

[Ghillie]

I'm interested in how you get on with this as this is something I would like to do too, although it would be a few years away yet. I know nothing about larger scale brewing and would have exactly the same questions you have around controlling fermentation temperatures, so keeping an interested eye on responses and any other challenges you face.

For what it's worth, my master plan was to speak to some of the local independent pubs about whether they had unused space in which a micro brewery could be set up. They provide the space, I provide the equipment and we'd come up with a plan about how best to sell the beer. I think that could be done in a way that didn't mean you had the pressures of needing to produce vast quantities and becoming a chore. I think the licensing and planning aspects are easier if you're part of a pub. Alternative is to have the pub fund the equipment etc and just pay you a nominal wage or profit-share on the beer.

Yeah I'm not planning going pro or anything like that; just putting the idea out to the forum guys with experience to try and gauge the feasibility, etc. Nothing will be happening any time soon as I've a million different other things that seem to want my money at the minute...

Sadly my garage isn't big enough for an independent cold room, therein lies the difficulty. Free standing FV's with chilling would work, but my brick built garage has no insulation - so it would get very cold in the winter time. Heating of sorts would really be required. Plus, the garage itself has a motorbike, etc inside also - something else which needs addressed!

I like the concept of involving a pub, it would certainly take away some of the headaches involved, provide the space and customer base. It may well be worth looking into. Another thing again is having a bonded store for booze if I was to bottle it myself. That would mean building another shed to house it; something which a pub would already have in place.

 

[Ghillie]

No, not necessarily, I have a half barrel system, running for two years till neighbor complained to council, I was told that I would have to apply for planning, there was a question of what I was applying for, change of use? no, because I still lived there it wasn't taking over the house, it was decided that certificate of existing lawful use for part of dwelling to be used as brewery was to be applied for, though it needed further time for 'existing lawful use' to be qualified. The application was rejected because the brewery wasn't deemed big enough. This was a shock at first but then it was pointed out to me by the council that meant I could continue, which I did and am still doing. I have had another complaint since regarding smell, same neighbour (which the original planning enforcement officer said she would do as she was of that ilk). I paid my £385 + extras for maps &etc, it wasn't needed.

Thanks Ian!

Glad it's all worked out for you!

 

[-Bezza-]

Yeah I'm not planning going pro or anything like that; just putting the idea out to the forum guys with experience to try and gauge the feasibility, etc. Nothing will be happening any time soon as I've a million different other things that seem to want my money at the minute...

Sadly my garage isn't big enough for an independent cold room, therein lies the difficulty. Free standing FV's with chilling would work, but my brick built garage has no insulation - so it would get very cold in the winter time. Heating of sorts would really be required. Plus, the garage itself has a motorbike, etc inside also - something else which needs addressed!

I like the concept of involving a pub, it would certainly take away some of the headaches involved, provide the space and customer base. It may well be worth looking into. Another thing again is having a bonded store for booze if I was to bottle it myself. That would mean building another shed to house it; something which a pub would already have in place.

If you do have any discussions with a pub, I'd be interested in what they say too.

At the risk of going off on too much of a tangent, I did think of another minor point that you may want to check if looking to use your garage. In the title deeds to my house there are restrictions on being able to operate a pub, hotel etc on the premises. Not sure if Scottish title deeds are the same, but you might want to give those a quick check to make sure there isn't a restriction on certain types of commercial use.

 

[Ghillie]

If you do have any discussions with a pub, I'd be interested in what they say too.

At the risk of going off on too much of a tangent, I did think of another minor point that you may want to check if looking to use your garage. In the title deeds to my house there are restrictions on being able to operate a pub, hotel etc on the premises. Not sure if Scottish title deeds are the same, but you might want to give those a quick check to make sure there isn't a restriction on certain types of commercial use.

I'll be sure to let you know if I ever do in the years to come.

Yes, title deeds - mine are ridiculous... We can't keep chickens or any other poultry, rabbits, more than 2 dogs, have a wall/fence higher than 18" in the front garden, etc, etc. I discussed this with my solicitor at point of purchase and he said they are archaic rules. Rules all the same, but usually not an issue unless a complaint is made against you. For instance my neighbour has rabbits and obviously it doesn't bother anyone in the neighbourhood because, well, because who has ever been offended by a ******** rabbit!?

 

[Ninkasi]

 

[cushyno]

...
Sadly my garage isn't big enough for an independent cold room, therein lies the difficulty. Free standing FV's with chilling would work, but my brick built garage has no insulation - so it would get very cold in the winter time. Heating of sorts would really be required. Plus, the garage itself has a motorbike, etc inside also - something else which needs addressed!
...

I recently built a small enclosure into an old coal shed on the side of our house, so although it shares two walls with the interior of our house, one other wall remains cold, the ceiling is a concrete slab and the floor is concrete and equivalent to a garage floor, with a single thin wooden door.

Inside I made a shelf and a simple pair of mdf doors (only 1/4” thick) to make an internal cabinet. The whole thing is lined with thin foil backed insulation. The wind can whip through an inch gap at the top and bottom of the outer door sucking out any heat, but the cabinet stays at 20°C thanks to a STC-1000 and a only a 40W tube heater.

There is space for two 25L FV's and about 40 bottles.

You could build something similar into a corner of your garage or even use one of those garden storage boxes lined with insulation. I'm sure you'd fit 3 or 4 FV's in one of these...
https://www.argos.co.uk/product/151...1l0qEIM57uTlM9779Til-DWDeivP7hHcaAkTxEALw_wcB

 

[Druncan]

We are building a 1.25 brewery in our converted longhouse. I have all LG enforcement involved. They help and other than planning (which is TBH our fault,,,,) are great. Smells and waste discharge cannot be dodged or hidden. Front it up with evidence of a good plan of your business. Are you serious, or just chancing your arm?
We want sustained growth, community integration and local employment opportunities. You get them puppies on board and you will be sailing into a rosy glow sunset,,,, IMHO,,,,, Dodge, or get skanky at your peril, ;oP

 

[Ghillie]

I recently built a small enclosure into an old coal shed on the side of our house, so although it shares two walls with the interior of our house, one other wall remains cold, the ceiling is a concrete slab and the floor is concrete and equivalent to a garage floor, with a single thin wooden door.

Inside I made a shelf and a simple pair of mdf doors (only 1/4” thick) to make an internal cabinet. The whole thing is lined with thin foil backed insulation. The wind can whip through an inch gap at the top and bottom of the outer door sucking out any heat, but the cabinet stays at 20°C thanks to a STC-1000 and a only a 40W tube heater.

There is space for two 25L FV's and about 40 bottles.
View attachment 16148
You could build something similar into a corner of your garage or even use one of those garden storage boxes lined with insulation. I'm sure you'd fit 3 or 4 FV's in one of these...
https://www.argos.co.uk/product/151...1l0qEIM57uTlM9779Til-DWDeivP7hHcaAkTxEALw_wcB

Looks like a great setup you have there!

The only issue is that I like to cold crash and fine my beers, so a means of cooling near freezing is a must. A clever workaround you have there nonetheless; and it would be more than enough for general fermenting.

 

[cushyno]

Take a look at what @Horners has built. It might be just what you need... the arc

 

[Druncan]

We think our planning application is nearly there FFS!!!!
Take a look it has cost a fortune in money and BS&T to get to this stage,,,,,
https://portal360.argyll-bute.gov.uk/my-requests/document-viewer?DocNo=21923970

Designing 200l BIAB in the pipe,,,