16.58% ABV Barrel Aged Imperial Stout - Cromarty Brewing Co. Anniversary XI clone recipe

[RoomWithABrew]

I expect they use a big healthy starter and oxygenate really well at the start and perhaps later in the ferment.
They also add the sugars in increments towards the end of the brew and these are easy to metabolise.
You could always pitch in fresh yeast late in the ferment if it clapped out, they seem to use that wyeast a lot in their recipes so have learnt it can cope and they have plenty of it from.
My copy of Dog H I first came across in their book craft beer for the geeks it's similar in diy dawg and the pdf.
I'm running diydawg on my android 11 device.

 

[peterpiper]

I expect they use a big healthy starter and oxygenate really well at the start and perhaps later in the ferment.
They also add the sugars in increments towards the end of the brew and these are easy to metabolise.
You could always pitch in fresh yeast late in the ferment if it clapped out, they seem to use that wyeast a lot in their recipes so have learnt it can cope and they have plenty of it from.
My copy of Dog H I first came across in their book craft beer for the geeks it's similar in diy dawg and the pdf.
I'm running diydawg on my android 11 device.

Does diy dawg do anything else usefull, or is it mostly a recipe list?
If good, could maybe try running on a PC Android emulator, as it won't install on my android 12&13 devices.

 

[peterpiper]

Have you read this thread?

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/barrel-aged-imperial-stout.99462/

Thanks, looking through it for tips, though don't think I'll be going the oak barrel route.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Does diy dawg do anything else usefull, or is it mostly a recipe list?
If good, could maybe try running on a PC Android emulator, as it won't install on my android 12&13 devices.

Have you tried installing via an APK?

DIY dawg is searchable and you can filter the list for yeast type, hops, other additions, malts.
It has a scale function but I scale recipe via brewfather.

 

[lhooq]

I would strongly recommend this recipe, by James Morton from his book Brew (lots of other good things in the book, too).
It's seriously intense, with a little malt sweetness that works for me (but then, I don't really like any lactose sweetness in a stout - I find it cloying even in small quantities). I scaled down to 12l batch and (on the second attempt - the first was one of those brewdays when nothing goes right...) hit the numbers with a slow reiterated mash in the grainfather. I reckon you could probably push the abv a little further with sugar, maybe after fermentation's got going, before s05 gave up. I got it to 14.5% and still happily bottle-conditioned with sugar and no extra yeast at that stage.

 

[peterpiper]

Sorry time lag here.
I've made the Dog H and used WLP099 and it coped fine with it. I used the yeast cake from a partigyle beer that I brewed after making a Thomas Hardy ale clone.
So 6 litre starter foc Barley wine, partigyle was 1.040 20 litres using the same yeast small pitch. Used this yeast cake for the Dog H.
Partigyle on the Dog H I made a mild.

Do you remember what FG the Dog H reached?
Asking because WLP099 is STA1 Positive (The STA1 gene encodes for an enzyme that breaks down dextrins into fermentable sugars). But RIS sweetness & body comes largely from dextrins, so don’t want them all broken down.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I would strongly recommend this recipe, by James Morton from his book Brew (lots of other good things in the book, too).
It's seriously intense, with a little malt sweetness that works for me (but then, I don't really like any lactose sweetness in a stout - I find it cloying even in small quantities). I scaled down to 12l batch and (on the second attempt - the first was one of those brewdays when nothing goes right...) hit the numbers with a slow reiterated mash in the grainfather. I reckon you could probably push the abv a little further with sugar, maybe after fermentation's got going, before s05 gave up. I got it to 14.5% and still happily bottle-conditioned with sugar and no extra yeast at that stage.

Fantastic book.

 

[peterpiper]

Sorry time lag here.
I've made the Dog H and used WLP099 and it coped fine with it. I used the yeast cake from a partigyle beer that I brewed after making a Thomas Hardy ale clone.
So 6 litre starter foc Barley wine, partigyle was 1.040 20 litres using the same yeast small pitch. Used this yeast cake for the Dog H.
Partigyle on the Dog H I made a

Have you tried installing via an APK?

DIY dawg is searchable and you can filter the list for yeast type, hops, other additions, malts.
It has a scale function but I scale recipe via brewfather.

That worked (android 13) thanks.
I just searched for DIY dawg apk.
The only problem with installing this way is you have no guarantee the file is safe, (and have to adjust settings to allow apk from unsafe sources).
Strange why playstore claims DIY dawg isn't compatible (so it won't try to install).

 

[phildo79]

I uploaded the recipe for KBS (Kentucky Breakfast Stout by Founders) in the recipe section. It is an excellent beer that comes in at around 12%. The chocolate and coffee adjuncts are very good at masking any deficiencies that occur during brewing. Took four months to come good but was pretty close to the original.

 

[peterpiper]

I would strongly recommend this recipe, by James Morton from his book Brew (lots of other good things in the book, too).
It's seriously intense, with a little malt sweetness that works for me (but then, I don't really like any lactose sweetness in a stout - I find it cloying even in small quantities). I scaled down to 12l batch and (on the second attempt - the first was one of those brewdays when nothing goes right...) hit the numbers with a slow reiterated mash in the grainfather. I reckon you could probably push the abv a little further with sugar, maybe after fermentation's got going, before s05 gave up. I got it to 14.5% and still happily bottle-conditioned with sugar and no extra yeast at that stage.

Thanks, the James Morton, Paradigm Shift Stout recipe looks very useful, especially with giving detailed directions, and good to know you had success with it.
I've just ordered a copy of the 'Brew' book.

I'm still very puzzled how the stated ABVs are being achieved, in this and the Brewdog recipes, where the finish ABV is well beyond the yeasts alcohol tolerance.

SafAle™ US‑05 Fermentis state: Alcohol tolerance 9-11%

And Brewfather, gives warning "yeast ABV tolerance limit exceeded", "by 5.9%" for Brewdog Dog H.

I'd looked at using cold steeping, to avoid bitterness from tannins. But advice seems to be - it's not worthwhile when barrel aging (where it mellows with age), and it needs extra malt to get equivalent amount extracted.

The recipe says to include the sieved extract, from cold steep, in the mash water. While most other cold steep methods I've seen, say to add the liquid just before end of boil - just to sterilise it, as a long boil would still bring out bitterness from the aroma and flavour compounds.


To make the mash a little less tricky, I'm considering a partial mash. Replacing part of the base malt with 3kg of liquid light malt extract (£13.99 at the moment).
How many steps did you perform in your reiterated mash?

Doing a cold steep, where extract is added towards end of boil, would reduce amount of water for mashing, and make it even trickier! Maybe another reason not to cold steep this way.

<edit> Don't know how, but this was 2nd attempt to enter a reply. First attempt, that vanished on posting, has since appeared - but I can't edit it!

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Do you remember what FG the Dog H reached?
Asking because WLP099 is STA1 Positive (The STA1 gene encodes for an enzyme that breaks down dextrins into fermentable sugars). But RIS sweetness & body comes largely from dextrins, so don’t want them all broken down.

I found that it fermented down to about 1.034 that was with barley wine and the stout OG 1.107.
The presence of sta 1 in the gene is not necessarily meaning it's functional at expressing the diastase.
Suregork clearly knows a lot more about this than I do.
https://beer.suregork.com/?p=3850

 

[peterpiper]

Good figures, but what about the stout FG, thanks?
And a very interesting, though complicated, read.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Good figures, but what about the stout FG, thanks?
And a very interesting, though complicated, read.

I'll tap the keg and find out. But won't be for a few days as I'm in Dunedin for a few days.

 

[phildo79]

I'm still very puzzled how the stated ABVs are being achieved, in this and the Brewdog recipes, where the finish ABV is well beyond the yeasts alcohol tolerance.

Wouldn't the beer naturally increase in ABV if aged for a year in a whiskey barrel?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

The beer can rapidly increase in alcohol because of retained whiskey in the barrel or soaked into the wood. Further fermentation esp if brett gets in will increase the alcohol.
Struise brewery in Belgium uses WLP001 chico for it's high gravity beers at 13 % no problems at all according to the brewer when I heard him on a craft beer and brewing podcast.

 

[lhooq]

Thanks, the James Morton, Paradigm Shift Stout recipe looks very useful, especially with giving detailed directions, and good to know you had success with it.
I've just ordered a copy of the 'Brew' book.

I'm still very puzzled how the stated ABVs are being achieved, in this and the Brewdog recipes, where the finish ABV is well beyond the yeasts alcohol tolerance.

SafAle™ US‑05 Fermentis state: Alcohol tolerance 9-11%

And Brewfather, gives warning "yeast ABV tolerance limit exceeded", "by 5.9%" for Brewdog Dog H.

I'd looked at using cold steeping, to avoid bitterness from tannins. But advice seems to be - it's not worthwhile when barrel aging (where it mellows with age), and it needs extra malt to get equivalent amount extracted.

The recipe says to include the sieved extract, from cold steep, in the mash water. While most other cold steep methods I've seen, say to add the liquid just before end of boil - just to sterilise it, as a long boil would still bring out bitterness from the aroma and flavour compounds.


To make the mash a little less tricky, I'm considering a partial mash. Replacing part of the base malt with 3kg of liquid light malt extract (£13.99 at the moment).
How many steps did you perform in your reiterated mash?

Doing a cold steep, where extract is added towards end of boil, would reduce amount of water for mashing, and make it even trickier! Maybe another reason not to cold steep this way.

<edit> Don't know how, but this was 2nd attempt to enter a reply. First attempt, that vanished on posting, has since appeared - but I can't edit it!

Sorry I missed this - I think that if yeasts are healthy and plentiful, and fermentation looked after (temperature control especially) they can go beyond their stated alcohol tolerance - these are limits the manufacturers are promising you they'll work at. But I've only really pushed it with US-05 on this recipe, not generally tried it out.

Likewise, I've no great expertise on cold steeping as I don't do it often enough to have rigorously tested all versions, but I think it makes a difference even adding to the mash. I've never barrel aged and can imagine that would make a further difference, but aging in the bottle hasn't thrown up any major issues. The cost of the malts (or a few 100g or so either way with one of them, at least) is a relatively small factor for me compared to the massive time commitment of a brew like this!

I did two steps reiterated mash (with not much more than a half batch). I imagine replacing part of the base malt with lme would be fine too.

I think if I was adding cold steeped to the boil rather than mash I'd factor in a longer boil, so as not to have to reduce mash liquor.

 

[peterpiper]

Wouldn't the beer naturally increase in ABV if aged for a year in a whiskey barrel?

I'd guess that's likely, depending on how recently the barrel had been emptied, though no idea how much by.
I'd be looking to age in glass, with oak chips or cubes, but again ABV gain would depend on how 'fresh' they are.
I'd read that in distilleries, a major factor is temperature. Depending on height in store, which controls temperature, barrels will either loose more water, or more alcohol.

 

[peterpiper]

Sorry I missed this - I think that if yeasts are healthy and plentiful, and fermentation looked after (temperature control especially) they can go beyond their stated alcohol tolerance - these are limits the manufacturers are promising you they'll work at. But I've only really pushed it with US-05 on this recipe, not generally tried it out.

Likewise, I've no great expertise on cold steeping as I don't do it often enough to have rigorously tested all versions, but I think it makes a difference even adding to the mash. I've never barrel aged and can imagine that would make a further difference, but aging in the bottle hasn't thrown up any major issues. The cost of the malts (or a few 100g or so either way with one of them, at least) is a relatively small factor for me compared to the massive time commitment of a brew like this!

I did two steps reiterated mash (with not much more than a half batch). I imagine replacing part of the base malt with lme would be fine too.

I think if I was adding cold steeped to the boil rather than mash I'd factor in a longer boil, so as not to have to reduce mash liquor.

That makes sense., especially the, relatively, overall negligible cost of the malts.
Though still unsure, if cold steep worthwhile, unless without a long boil.
I'm now looking at doing a first runnings + extract for IRS brew.
Then maybe trying some 'common beer' from 2nd runnings. Just looking for recipe ideas.

 

[peterpiper]

NOT very impressed with the James Morton 'Brew' book, which has just arrived. Roughly one fith of the book is recipes, and of that, over one third seems to be be just pictures or diagrams.
1/5 * 2/3 = 2/15 ( or 13.3%)

Fine if you want lots of arty pictures of this guy; his bottles and glasses, but not what I'd call a recipe book.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Thanks for the info I'll avoid the book.