Shepheard Neame 1698 Yeast

terrym · Feb 27, 2016

MyQul said:
You might like to let us know about the esters/flavour profile it gives. You could have had a slurp of the starter wort too:whistle:

I will try to do that, but that may be from a subsequent brew since I haven't done this brew 'recipe' before.
I have a bottle of the fermented out wort from the first 2 litre batch sitting in the fridge. The first sample from this surprised me in that it was reasonably drinkable. Whether I drink the remainder remains to be seen....

terrym · Feb 27, 2016

View from above........
Briefly opened up the FV to seal the rim with cling film so that I can force all the CO2 through my airlock and this what I found, so looking good I think. The krausen is about 25mm think.

MyQul · Feb 27, 2016

terrym said:
View from above........
Briefly opened up the FV to seal the rim with cling film so that I can force all the CO2 through my airlock and this what I found, so looking good I think. The krausen is about 25mm think.

Lovely. Looks like a big souffle :thumb:

Simonh82 · Feb 29, 2016

MyQul said:
I bought a bottle of 1698 yesterday when I spotted some in ASDA. I won't be culturing it up yet as I have pale ales and pseudo lagers using Nottingham yeast planned for the next few brews

I bought a bottle a week or so ago from asda and I don't think it was bottle conditioned. Nothing mentioned on the label and I couldn't see any trace on the bottom of the bottle.

I wasn't trying to harvest but I checked out of interest. I hope they aren't phasing it out.

MyQul · Feb 29, 2016

Simonh82 said:
I bought a bottle a week or so ago from asda and I don't think it was bottle conditioned. Nothing mentioned on the label and I couldn't see any trace on the bottom of the bottle.

I wasn't trying to harvest but I checked out of interest. I hope they aren't phasing it out.

The website says 1698 is bottled conditioned. When you get a commercial bottle conditioned beer, it's not like a home brewed beer with about 1mm of yeast stuck the bottom, there'se just a few cells in the usually. Nothing that you can often see, especially through the brown glass. The first couple of step ups are almost on faith.

The last time I cultured from a bottle was a bottle of brakspeare triple - I couldn't see any yeast at all in the bottle. Cultured up fine though.

terrym · Feb 29, 2016

Simonh82 said:
I bought a bottle a week or so ago from asda and I don't think it was bottle conditioned. Nothing mentioned on the label and I couldn't see any trace on the bottom of the bottle.

I wasn't trying to harvest but I checked out of interest. I hope they aren't phasing it out.

Does your bottle label look like the one below. It says 'Bottle Conditioned' under Shepherd Neame. When I started my culture three weeks back I could hardly detect any yeast on the bottom of the bottle. But there was some, and it multiplied, as you can see from the photo of my brew above...

Simonh82 · Mar 1, 2016

Just realised it was there IPA that I bought not 1698. I think that used to be bottle conditioned. At least I seem to remember it was at one point.

MyQul · Mar 1, 2016

Also once it's finished, what attenuation you got would be useful to know too

terrym · Mar 1, 2016

MyQul said:
Also once it's finished, what attenuation you got would be useful to know too

Will do, but it will be an approximation since about 8%ish of the original wort was partially fermented wort from the yeast culture (seemed a shame to waste it!).

terrym · Mar 3, 2016

Ummm .....
Seven days into the primary, I thought I'd take a peek inside the FV after virtually no airlock activity since yesterday (my FV has no leaks I use cling film to seal it), and in preparation for racking off this weekend prior to resting and dry hopping. Surprise, it still had a really thick yeast topped krausen. Removed some of this to take an SG reading, and found underneath the brew was pretty clear, but worryingly was still only about 1.020 (down from about 1.047). Has the yeast got muntonwherryitis I thought. Anyway stirred in the remaining top yeast and gently roused (little yeast at the bottom it seemed) and about 90 minutes on the bubble rate has re-established to where I would have expected given the SG/sugars still in there.
My theory is that this is appears to be a fiercely top fermenting highly flocculating yeast,which then forms a very stable krausen and the yeast then gets isolated away from the the brew, and eventually stops working.
Anyone else have this happen?

MyQul · Mar 3, 2016

terrym said:
Anyone else have this happen?

I've read about this kind of thing happening in an article (will try to find it again). With my WY1469 it similarly had a krausen that didn't drop. So I when thought it had stopped fermenting I swirled it back into the wort. It grew back again so obvioulsly hadn't hit its FG

Edit: Found it http://hbd.org/uchima/yeastzone/topcrop.html

terrym · Mar 3, 2016

MyQul said:
I've read about this kind of thing happening in an article (will try to find it again). With my WY1469 it similarly had a krausen that didn't drop. So I when thought it had stopped fermenting I swirled it back into the wort. It grew back again so obvioulsly hadn't hit its FG
Edit: Found it http://hbd.org/uchima/yeastzone/topcrop.html

Looks like that is what this yeast does then.
I've also noticed that the yeast layer was darker than what it was, as the article suggests.
I will give it another stir at the end of the day, and then twice per day until its finished.....hopefully soon!
I use smaller winemaker's type airlocks and it's now going at about 60 burps per minute, back up to what it did a few days back.
What a learning curve!

terrym · Mar 3, 2016

MyQul said:
Edit: Found it http://hbd.org/uchima/yeastzone/topcrop.html

I had a skim read through of the article linked at the bottom of the above, and found this which I have reproduced below, relating to a White Labs yeast:-

WLP002 English Ale

White Labs says: A classic ESB strain from one of England's largest breweries. This yeast is best suited for English style ales including milds, bitters, porters, and English style stouts. This leaves behind some residual sweetness. Attenuation: 63-70%. Flocculation: Very High. Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 65-68ÃÂ°F.
Seems pretty clean. This has got to be the most flocculent yeast I have ever used -- this yeast settles out into a dense, sticky layer on the bottom of the fermenter, leaving an exceptionally clear beer. Attempts to rouse the yeast (via mechanical agitation) resulted in large chunks of flocculated yeast -- resembling cottage cheese in appearance -- floating in the beer. Needless to say, within an hour or two, the yeast had settled out again.
Can take a very long time (4+ weeks) to carbonate in the bottle. This is not unexpected, given how flocculent this yeast is; there likely wasn't much of it carried over into the bottles to ferment the priming sugar. This yeast is probably more suited to beers which will be kegged and force carbonated (as opposed to bottle conditioned), or for "Real Ale".

I would say that the 1698 yeast appears to be very similar to this. I was going to put this brew into a PB but am beginning to wonder whether its better bottled. At least you can agitate a bottle easier to redistribute the yeast if the carbing is slow. But, of course that is counter the suggestion. Another conundrum......

MyQul · Mar 3, 2016

terrym said:
I had a skim read through of the article linked at the bottom of the above, and found this which I have reproduced below, relating to a White Labs yeast:-

WLP002 English Ale
White Labs says: A classic ESB strain from one of England's largest breweries. This yeast is best suited for English style ales including milds, bitters, porters, and English style stouts. This leaves behind some residual sweetness. Attenuation: 63-70%. Flocculation: Very High. Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 65-68ÃÂ°F.
Seems pretty clean. This has got to be the most flocculent yeast I have ever used -- this yeast settles out into a dense, sticky layer on the bottom of the fermenter, leaving an exceptionally clear beer. Attempts to rouse the yeast (via mechanical agitation) resulted in large chunks of flocculated yeast -- resembling cottage cheese in appearance -- floating in the beer. Needless to say, within an hour or two, the yeast had settled out again.
Can take a very long time (4+ weeks) to carbonate in the bottle. This is not unexpected, given how flocculent this yeast is; there likely wasn't much of it carried over into the bottles to ferment the priming sugar. This yeast is probably more suited to beers which will be kegged and force carbonated (as opposed to bottle conditioned), or for "Real Ale".

I would say that the 1698 yeast appears to be very similar to this. I was going to put this brew into a PB but am beginning to wonder whether its better bottled. At least you can agitate a bottle easier to redistribute the yeast if the carbing is slow. But, of course that is counter the suggestion. Another conundrum......

WY1469 seem to be similiar properties to the SN yeast. As mentioned I swirled the FV to get the thick goopy krausen back into the wort. The 1469 is also fairly flocculent in that is sticks to the bottom of bottles and you can up end them without any yeast coming out but it seemed fine when carbing.
WLP002 is super floccuant and as mentioned is often described as cottage cheese like.When you were culturing up the strain did you notice any cottage cheese like lumpyness? If you didn't I wouldn't worry too much and just put it in the PB

terrym · Mar 3, 2016

MyQul
You might be right. I didn't see cottage cheese, more like cheese fondue :sick:.
Anyway if it is a WY1469 type I should see an FG around 1.013-1.016 given 67-71% expected attenuation, but muddied by uncertainty on the OG due to the part fermented wort addition. I also found a reference which said that WY1469 is a Timothy Taylor type strain, which is good cos I've just bought a Landlords Bitter kit to try and so can use this yeast on that too.

MyQul · Mar 3, 2016

terrym said:
MyQul
You might be right. I didn't see cottage cheese, more like cheese fondue :sick:.
Anyway if it is a WY1469 type I should see an FG around 1.013-1.016 given 67-71% expected attenuation, but muddied by uncertainty on the OG due to the part fermented wort addition. I also found a reference which said that WY1469 is a Timothy Taylor type strain, which is good cos I've just bought a Landlords Bitter kit to try and so can use this yeast on that too.

You should'nt always believe the attenuation figures on the yeast lab site's. Iirc I hit about 75% attenuation for 1469 on my last use.

terrym · Mar 3, 2016

OK, above noted . :thumb:
Yeast aside, found this on ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MADE-WITH...990453?hash=item5429781cf5:g:Rr4AAOSwKtlWoCud
I'm sure you could find it a home (were it not for the price!).

MyQul · Mar 3, 2016

:lol: Nice find!

Although I mostly use Eden Falls from ASDA now

terrym · Mar 3, 2016

Well I 've just been out to give FV contents a stir, and found the krausen had bubbled through the airlock

.I would expect this at the beginning of the primary but not towards the end! Seem to be the same as the article suggested. Anyway looks like a blow off tube will be needed, although I've stirred the krausen back into the brew again. Might need to set the alarm for an inspection at 4.00am tomorrow morning. I'll look forward to that :doh:

.

MyQul · Mar 3, 2016

terrym said:
Well I 've just been out to give FV contents a stir, and found the krausen had bubbled through the airlock .I would expect this at the beginning of the primary but not towards the end! Seem to be the same as the article suggested. Anyway looks like a blow off tube will be needed, although I've stirred the krausen back into the brew again. Might need to set the alarm for an inspection at 4.00am tomorrow morning. I'll look forward to that .

Krausen, espeically a true top cropping variety, always reminds me of a 50's B movie as it grows and expands. I'm completely fascinated by them. When I first harvested the yeast cake from WY1469 and stupidly put the whole thing into 2L of starter wort, even though I nearly lost the whole strain I couldn't stop watching it as it erupted very slowly out of the 5L water bottle I put it in. I wish I had a camera so I could of filmed it

Shepheard Neame 1698 Yeast

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