SO 4 issues

Bragdy Mike · Dec 10, 2024

I normally use Safale 04 yeast for my British style beers and S0 5 for US style brews. The S0 4 tends to go off like an express train but never quite reaches the target FG. SO 5 is more measured and hits the desired FG. Thinking of ditching SO 4. Could I use SO 5 for British style beers or is there a recommended alternative?
Mike

Clint · Dec 10, 2024

I tied 04 a few times but found Nottingham better for my UK beers.

The Baron · Dec 10, 2024

Welcome to the forum.
You could double pitch say half and half so you get some of the characteristics you want from S04 and the FG of SO5.

Rodcx500z · Dec 10, 2024

I tend to use midland or atlantic

Agentgonzo · Dec 10, 2024

Bragdy Mike said:
The S0 4 tends to go off like an express train but never quite reaches the target FG.

What temperature do you ferment it at?
I've found that if I ferment it slightly warmer, the yeast are more active, which generates more heat, which makes them more active and the feedback loop (as you say) makes it go off like an express train. Then (at about 1.020, maybe when it runs out of maltose?) the activity drops off, the temperature drops and the yeast stalls.

I've had better results when fermenting cooler, or applying some cooling in that initial 24-48h period. If it's stalled, I've got it going again by raising the temperature back up to where it stalled (25º in the case of my last brew!)

The Baron · Dec 10, 2024

I real terms what Agent has said is true but you should be raising the temp at near the end for a Diacetyl rest anyway so this would also help the yeast to finish off the last the last few points and clean up too

fury_tea · Dec 10, 2024

I always start 04 at 20c then after 5/6 days I bump the temperature up 1c per day up to around 25c. Usually by day 10 it's finished and hits FG no problem. I do this with loads of yeasts actually. As @Agentgonzo says sometimes they lose steam by the end which cools the ferment down and causes them to drop out.

Not sure it's necessary with the likes of 05 but it seems to get the job done quicker (although I've not actually tested it so it could be in my head).

Agentgonzo · Dec 10, 2024

The Baron said:
but you should be raising the temp at near the end for a Diacetyl rest anyway so this would also help the yeast to finish off the

I thought that was only necessary for cold ferments like lagers. If you're doing an ale fermentation at 19/20 I've heard you don't need one (and I've never done them and have never had and diacetyl issues)

The Baron · Dec 10, 2024

I am led to believe ale yeast can throw Diacetyl too I always do one just in case, belt and braces for me. athumb..

Agentgonzo · Dec 10, 2024

The Baron said:
I am led to believe ale yeast can throw Diacetyl too I always do one just in case, belt and braces for me.

I probably didn't explain myself particularly clearly. As I understand it, ale yeast also produces diacetyl, but will naturally clean it up at the end of fermentation at it's normal (higher than lager) fermentation temperature anyway. Hence for ale fermentations, the end of fermentation is the diacetyl rest, without needing to raise the temperature.

I'm not sure if I've explained that well or not.
Certainly raising the temp won't hurt. I've found I've not needed to though.

The Baron · Dec 10, 2024

Yep got Agent athumb..

Bitter_Dave · Dec 10, 2024

S04 is a decent yeast in my experience and I don't recall any problems with it over the years I've used it. I pitch it at 18c and leave it for 10 days and it does the business. It won't attenuate as low as S05 but whether that is a problem depends upon what you want from it.

Agentgonzo · Dec 10, 2024

I've got some very gushy bottles that were from the stalled S-04 ferment now. SadFace.

Good thing about swing tops is you can relieve the pressure gradually

.Peter. · Dec 11, 2024

Bragdy Mike said:
I normally use Safale 04 yeast for my British style beers and S0 5 for US style brews. The S0 4 tends to go off like an express train but never quite reaches the target FG. SO 5 is more measured and hits the desired FG. Thinking of ditching SO 4. Could I use SO 5 for British style beers or is there a recommended alternative?
Mike

Always Notts or if 'fruity Verdant

Brewshed · Dec 11, 2024

I would also recommend Nottingham. I use it for all my British style ales. It is a good neutral yeast which is very consistent. It is high attenuating so finishes quite low (typically 1008 -1010).

The Baron · Dec 11, 2024

I always use CML Beoir for Ales and Bitters

Bragdy Mike · Dec 11, 2024

The Baron said:
I always use CML Beoir for Ales and Bitters

Thanks for all your replies. It’s good to hear the range of experiences and options.
I ferment at 18.5 when using S04 and S05 in a temperature controlled ‘fridge’.
Over the next few brews I’m going to try most of the suggestions including trying Nottingham-and perhaps a 50:50 mix.
I normally pitch straight from the packet.
Diolch yn fawr
Mike

MashBag · Dec 11, 2024

I have used Notty & Windsor a lot pitched together.. very good. And very cheap from CML

Tanglefoot · Dec 11, 2024

I just used S-04 for the first time on Monday, wasn't much choice in my LHBS though I could have gone for Notty but fancied a change.
It's been very sluggish so far certainly compared to US-05.
It was low OG at 1.037 and 1 pack in 12L so shouldn't be struggling in brewfridge at 20c. No rush though, hope it's worth the wait.

Edit ; this has picked up the pace now and is rattling along - happy days !

Lunesdale Brewer · Dec 12, 2024

Bore Da, Mike,
I find S-04 very reliable and a good yeast for ales; ferments fast, drops like a stone at the end. It is my standard yeast for bitters, pale ales, milds and stouts. I ferment at 20 deg C although I have used range 20 - 24 when I had poorer temperature control, don't get fixated on final gravity figures within a couple of points - it may be that your mash conditions were different. Definitely do not go down the diacetyl rabbit hole with ales!
I have used Nottingham strains over the years with perfectly good results, never used S-05 -I am happy with S-04.

Haydn

Fermentation graph below:

SO 4 issues

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