Is cask beer this simple?

Hazelwood Brewery said:

I use about 1.5g/l

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Thanks for your insight. I am looking to do less bottling.
I might be giving this a go. I have a corny and some stuff and tbh it sounds better than fiddling about with 5l bag-in-box.

Just drinking my first go - a wherry kit from 2011 (not a typo). So there is no doubt it keeps in a corny. Just a bit foamy at 5 psi.

Is there a better tap for this setup?

This is what I have at the mo, and it a bit foamy.

##https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-...284346218-B075CF8GW6-&hvexpln=74&gad_source=1

Hazelwood Brewery said:

I use about 1.5g/l

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So that’s roughly 34 grams for 23 litres then ? Only on some instructions for dark rocks kits they say to use 100 grams if kegging

Yup. 34.5 get your drug dealers scales out

The instructions will be to give you a higher carbonation.

MashBag said:

Thanks for your insight. I am looking to do less bottling.
I might be giving this a go. I have a corny and some stuff and tbh it sounds better than fiddling about with 5l bag-in-box.

Just drinking my first go - a wherry kit from 2011 (not a typo). So there is no doubt it keeps in a corny. Just a bit foamy at 5 psi.

Is there a better tap for this setup?

This is what I have at the mo, and it a bit foamy.

##https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-...284346218-B075CF8GW6-&hvexpln=74&gad_source=1

Click to expand...

Those taps fitted directly on the corny keg are a bit more troublesome because there’s no beer line to balance the system. You could reduce the pressure further or you could buy a party tap - these have a kind of gun at the tap end and a length of 3/16 beer line to the beer ball-lock connector. The resistance of the pipe reduces the foaming. You may have to cut the length of the beer line down (bit by bit) if the flow rate is just a dribble.

Edit: I should also point out that I’m using a bottom-tap King Keg so very little pressure is required to dispense beer. If you are using a corny keg you will need enough pressure to push the beer up the dip tube so you might do well to use the higher end of the scale with respect to the amount of priming sugar of you might start to struggle as the keg empties.

Tommo 2 said:

So that’s roughly 34 grams for 23 litres then ? Only on some instructions for dark rocks kits they say to use 100 grams if kegging

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Yes, it’s not too sensitive, anywhere between 30g and 40g would be okay for your first brew and then adjust up or down according to taste.

Kits give you measures for bottling which is normally far more carbonated than for a pressure barrel / cask.

I have seen instructions for using a corny on its side and dispensing through the gas post. I guess then you can decide whether you let air or co2 into the liquid post based on whether it keeps on pouring or stops due to the vacuum.

I have 10l and 12l cornys and a post mount tap so may have a go - just need a stillage.

Hazelwood Brewery said:

Those taps fitted directly on the corny keg are a bit more troublesome because there’s no beer line to balance the system. You could reduce the pressure further or you could buy a party tap - these have a kind of gun at the tap end and a length of 3/16 beer line to the beer ball-lock connector. The resistance of the pipe reduces the foaming. You may have to cut the length of the beer line down (bit by bit) if the flow rate is just a dribble.

Edit: I should also point out that I’m using a bottom-tap King Keg so very little pressure is required to dispense beer. If you are using a corny keg you will need enough pressure to push the beer up the dip tube so you might do well to use the higher end of the scale with respect to the amount of priming sugar of you might start to struggle as the keg empties.

Click to expand...

I also have two bottom tap king kegs but also a top tap king keg , does the top tap keg need a bit more carbonation sugar then ?

I use this calculator: https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

Since carbonation is temperature dependent, it adjusts for the beer temperature.

Tommo 2 said:

I also have two bottom tap king kegs but also a top tap king keg , does the top tap keg need a bit more carbonation sugar then ?

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Possibly not, the top-tap King Keg is quite a broad barrel so a little pressure will be applied over a large area. You also don’t have as far to lift the beer. Again, go with the higher amount of priming sugar if you’re nervous and adjust next time if necessary.

Tommo 2 said:

So that’s roughly 34 grams for 23 litres then ? Only on some instructions for dark rocks kits they say to use 100 grams if kegging

Click to expand...

There's no fixed amount, especially as we are talking very low pressures. I've said 12-14g per 20L in a Corny keg, in which there will be very little head-space. I know from experience I may even need to bleed off some excess gas before serving (venting). @Hazelwood Brewery has said more than twice that amount of sugar for a KK plastic pressure barrel (which was the requested container), which has a much larger headspace and perhaps aren't quite as gas tight as a Corny keg.

I'll use an ordinary keg tap to serve the first pint or two to avoid an over-full, over-pressured Corny keg forcing beer into the regulator (I don't even connect the regulator until those first two pints are served to ensure the gas dip tube is clear of the beer). I initially use a keg tap because if the gas drops to zero, the beer stops coming out! If using a handpump straight away, it will suck beer out, potentially collapsing a plastic pressure barrel, or pulling air past a Corny Kegs lid seal.

Handling such piffling gas pressures is all a bit of a learning curve, but one you pick up pretty quick. Hopefully you don't fill your regulator with beer during the learning process!




This illustrates why the "Real Ale" drinking homebrewers are often the ones giving advice on CO2 use. The last persons to give CO2 advice it might otherwise seem? But these characters have to manage the CO2 they use with much more care and attention.

I'm also assuming a hand-pump ... bad Peebee! Serving without a pump will be slow at "cask-style" pressures. Serving from a Corny keg or a top-tap pressure barrel will need about 1PSI CO2 top pressure to get anything out of the barrel ... there must be enough pressure to lift beer from the bottom of the keg to the tap. This was the reason for the old means of serving cask-style beer from a Corny keg (by gravity) by putting the keg on its side ... it was because people thought no external gas pressure was essential. Leaving space for this wally (me!) to produce his "treatise".

Larse said:

I use this calculator: https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/ ...

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Pardon?

Beer priming and "carbonation" calculators are utterly (without exception) useless when it comes to "cask-style" beer.

Changes in atmospheric pressure and temperature are handled by an LPG regulator (due to its large diaphragm), which is why I recommend them ("breathers" are okay, but aren't good for gravity serving and will not retain any CO2 condition past a couple of days).

peebee said:

Pardon?

Beer priming and "carbonation" calculators are utterly (without exception) useless when it comes to "cask-style" beer.

Changes in atmospheric pressure and temperature are handled by an LPG regulator (due to its large diaphragm), which is why I recommend them ("breathers" are okay, but aren't good for gravity serving and will not retain any CO2 condition past a couple of days).

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Yes, but the posts about priming sugar seemed to be related to corny kegs. At least that's what was mentioned at the top of this page.

@Larse: Thanks for the "like" on my post ... I actually thought you might have been a bit narked by my comment!

I have to come clean ... the reason I know those calculators are useless for "cask-style" is because in the earlier days I was trying to make them work for me!

MashBag said:

Thanks for your insight. I am looking to do less bottling.
I might be giving this a go. I have a corny and some stuff and tbh it sounds better than fiddling about with 5l bag-in-box.

Just drinking my first go - a wherry kit from 2011 (not a typo). So there is no doubt it keeps in a corny. Just a bit foamy at 5 psi.

Is there a better tap for this setup?

This is what I have at the mo, and it a bit foamy.

##https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-...284346218-B075CF8GW6-&hvexpln=74&gad_source=1

Click to expand...

Electric pump? If you've got very low carbonated beer (<2PSI) and no handpump, I've often thought of using an electric pump. LPG regulator or breather to maintain condition, electric pump (fitted to a tap like in you link or a party tap, or a purpose built one, but I haven't seen any for the HB market) to shift the beer a couple of feet (upwards) or so. The pump (especially an impeller type) should breakout enough CO2 to create a head without being frothy (if you keep pressure under control). Probably would work better with your bag-in-box.

I really like that idea, I get the logic too, I have seen impeller pumps do it.
However bags have been paused for the moment. Let's see how kegs go first.

I've thought about an electric pump a few times too with exactly the same thoughts about the impeller breaking the CO2 out of suspension. Possible a pump in line with a variable orifice of some sort? Otherwise there are the compressed air driven pumps (eg flowjet) that are used in bars with long lines but that might just add even more complexity.

Maybe the Aldi beer can pourer thing could be modified.... anyone who has one fancy posting some internal pictures?

MCRBrew said:

I've thought about an electric pump a few times too with exactly the same thoughts about the impeller breaking the CO2 out of suspension. Possible a pump in line with a variable orifice of some sort? Otherwise there are the compressed air driven pumps (eg flowjet) that are used in bars with long lines but that might just add even more complexity.

Maybe the Aldi beer can pourer thing could be modified.... anyone who has one fancy posting some internal pictures?

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The aldi beer dispenser does exactly that, it has no co2 , just pumps out like a hand pull ( ish ) on lower carbonated beers, not much cop for highly carbonated styles imo. but was definitely worth the effort to get one, took 7 aldi stores to get one and that was last one in that store. My whole homebrew journey was to try and emulate a proper real ale hand pulled pint from home and this takes me one step closer

If there was enough interest from home brewers then this is the way to go. These are being produced in the Czech Republic just need to get the HBS on board.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/cask-beer-from-a-keg.103743/

nidge said:

The aldi beer dispenser does exactly that, it has no co2 , just pumps out like a hand pull ( ish ) on lower carbonated beers, not much cop for highly carbonated styles imo. but was definitely worth the effort to get one, took 7 aldi stores to get one and that was last one in that store. My whole homebrew journey was to try and emulate a proper real ale hand pulled pint from home and this takes me one step closer

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I read about this and it seems to be intended for cans. How do you use it with homebrew?
Anyone know if they are still available?

I decant my bottles into a large slim jim glass , as my bottles are slightly larger than the hight of unit( only downside) , i find the unit a bit pointless for fully carbonated beers like the cans its ment for but great for my " unfizzy beer " Good luck finding one