Festival - summer glory advice

shd · Sep 24, 2024

Hi again all
I’m after a little advice regarding a festival summer glory brew that I kicked off on Sunday

It says after five days to add the contents of the Hop pellet sachet, but not to stir and then to leave for a further five days before bottling, obviously after checking the fermentation has stopped

So :

1 - I know we’re only talking about an extra few days but typically the approach if a brew says it’s ready to bottle in 4 to 6 days is to actually leave it two weeks
Would this be the advice for this particular brew also based on the instructions and timings I’ve mentioned above ?

2 - the adding of the pellets…. I’ve always read and understood the introduction of oxygen can affect the brewing process. Can anyone confirm please that taking the lid off won’t affect the brew ?

3 - The instructions then imply I should siphon into a separate barrel and at the priming sugar and then leave for a further 14 days. Is this correct or can I bottle at this stage like I normally would?

I’ve had a couple of photos showing the instructions

If anybody could confirm, please, it would be much appreciated

Stu's Brews · Sep 24, 2024

I'd always take the instructions on a kit as recommendations rather than strict rules to follow - there are a lot of variables that can impact the duration of the fermentation process and you will need to adapt accordingly to get the best end result.

Answering your questions:

1. If you have a healthy fermentation, then there is no reason why it couldn't be complete and ready for bottling after 10 days. However, you are the best judge of when your fermentation is complete - do not bottle until you are confident it is ready, irrespective of what it says in the instructions.

2. If you add the pellets towards the end of fermentation (as airlock activity is slowing down, which would roughly be day 5 as per the instructions) then there will be sufficient CO2 in the headspace of the fermenter to limit the amount of oxygen being introduced. Any oxygen that is introduced will then be absorbed by the yeast, as they will still be active.

3. No need to do anything different with regards to bottling. If you normally bottle straight from the fermenter, then you'll be fine doing it with this kit.

soupdragon · Sep 24, 2024

Don't forget to put the little sock over the syphon inside the fermenter when you bottle or you will get hop bits in your beer. Apologies if I'm stating the blindingly obvious but I'd rather that that have anyone risk (possibly) mucking their beer up

Cheers Tom

Clint · Sep 24, 2024

I found some Festival kits to take a bit longer to limp to the suggested final gravity.
I'd leave it a full 2 weeks,check fg. If it's done,bung the hops in. The suggested 5 days won't harm it. You could check it at 10 days though as like said it might be done.

soupdragon · Sep 24, 2024

Clint said:
I found some Festival kits to take a bit longer to limp to the suggested final gravity.
I'd leave it a full 2 weeks,check fg. If it's done,bung the hops in. The suggested 5 days won't harm it. You could check it at 10 days though as like said it might be done.

I've had a Festival Britfire in a fermenter for 12 days now and it's still going. Started at 1.046 and is on 1.013 now. Not far to go but It's not in any rush to finish. It's been at or around 20-21⁰c for most of the time too

Cheers Tom

shd · Sep 26, 2024

Clint said:
I found some Festival kits to take a bit longer to limp to the suggested final gravity.
I'd leave it a full 2 weeks,check fg. If it's done,bung the hops in. The suggested 5 days won't harm it. You could check it at 10 days though as like said it might be done.

Thanks for the reply @Clint

So the manufacturers instructions that says add the hops after five days, That’s because in their mind the fermentation should’ve stopped then it seems ?

Clint · Sep 26, 2024

Some kit instructions can be a bit "off"...Festival kits are good and I expect following the instructions to the letter won't make you a bad beer. However,if it's not finished when you bottle it you'll have a bad result if you're new to brewing. The result would still be less than ideal to an experienced brewer but there's things best avoided in the first place!

shd · Sep 27, 2024

Stu's Brews said:
I'd always take the instructions on a kit as recommendations rather than strict rules to follow - there are a lot of variables that can impact the duration of the fermentation process and you will need to adapt accordingly to get the best end result.

Answering your questions:

1. If you have a healthy fermentation, then there is no reason why it couldn't be complete and ready for bottling after 10 days. However, you are the best judge of when your fermentation is complete - do not bottle until you are confident it is ready, irrespective of what it says in the instructions.

2. If you add the pellets towards the end of fermentation (as airlock activity is slowing down, which would roughly be day 5 as per the instructions) then there will be sufficient CO2 in the headspace of the fermenter to limit the amount of oxygen being introduced. Any oxygen that is introduced will then be absorbed by the yeast, as they will still be active.

3. No need to do anything different with regards to bottling. If you normally bottle straight from the fermenter, then you'll be fine doing it with this kit.

Thanks for the reply @Stu's Brews
unfortunately I’ve got a few further questions

To add the hops the lid needs to come off so introduces oxygen and then it gets left for a further five days
Then the instructions say to siphon into barrel or another container to add the priming sugar
I normally bottle but the instruction say the priming sugar is the perfect amount hence my thought was to put the priming sugar in the secondary container siphon the beer into it and then it says to stir again introducing yet more oxygen the benefit would be that the priming sugar is evenly distributed
And then, obviously to bottle

I’ve only done two kit form brews but I’ve done a lot of read up and the addition of oxygen seems to be a popular reason for brews going bad

Not sure if I’m overthinking this

Stu's Brews · Sep 27, 2024

shd said:
Thanks for the reply @Stu's Brews
unfortunately I’ve got a few further questions

To add the hops the lid needs to come off so introduces oxygen and then it gets left for a further five days
Then the instructions say to siphon into barrel or another container to add the priming sugar
I normally bottle but the instruction say the priming sugar is the perfect amount hence my thought was to put the priming sugar in the secondary container siphon the beer into it and then it says to stir again introducing yet more oxygen the benefit would be that the priming sugar is evenly distributed
And then, obviously to bottle

I’ve only done two kit form brews but I’ve done a lot of read up and the addition of oxygen seems to be a popular reason for brews going bad

Not sure if I’m overthinking this

When you add the hops there is a likelihood some oxygen will be introduced. Adding them close to the end of fermenation does two things. Firstly, it ensures the headspace of the fermenter is full of CO2, which can act as a temporary blanket to limit the amount of oxygen which may be introduced - this does assume you are only opening the lid for a very short time to add the hops. Secondly, the fact the yeast are still active means that any oxygen that is introduced will be absorbed by them. If you were to dry hop after fermentation had completely finished (e.g. after two weeks) then the yeast won't be in a position to do anything about the oxygen as they are no longer actively fermenting.

Using a second container/bottling bucket is a perfectly acceptable approach for batch priming. I personally wouldn't give it much of a stir, if any at all, as the flow of beer entering the container should be sufficient to evenly mix the sugar (this can be aided by first putting the sugar in a 250ml of boiled water to make it into a slurry and making sure the beer is flowing into the bottom of the container). You don't really need to add any oxygen, however, as above, any that is added will be absorbed by the yeast during the secondary fermentation in bottle. That all said, I would personally stick with what you have done for other kits if you have found that process works well ('If it ain't broke, don't fix it').

shd · Sep 27, 2024

Stu's Brews said:
When you add the hops there is a likelihood some oxygen will be introduced. Adding them close to the end of fermenation does two things. Firstly, it ensures the headspace of the fermenter is full of CO2, which can act as a temporary blanket to limit the amount of oxygen which may be introduced - this does assume you are only opening the lid for a very short time to add the hops. Secondly, the fact the yeast are still active means that any oxygen that is introduced will be absorbed by them. If you were to dry hop after fermentation had completely finished (e.g. after two weeks) then the yeast won't be in a position to do anything about the oxygen as they are no longer actively fermenting.

Using a second container/bottling bucket is a perfectly acceptable approach for batch priming. I personally wouldn't give it much of a stir, if any at all, as the flow of beer entering the container should be sufficient to evenly mix the sugar (this can be aided by first putting the sugar in a 250ml of boiled water to make it into a slurry and making sure the beer is flowing into the bottom of the container). You don't really need to add any oxygen, however, as above, any that is added will be absorbed by the yeast during the secondary fermentation in bottle. That all said, I would personally stick with what you have done for other kits if you have found that process works well ('If it ain't broke, don't fix it').

Thanks again @Stu's Brews

My first kits didn’t have the need to add hops or used priming sugar either
I used carbonation drops for those hence these two elements in this kit are new to me and got me thinking, or overthinking as the case, maybe

Stu's Brews · Sep 27, 2024

shd said:
Thanks again @Stu's Brews

My first kits didn’t have the need to add hops or used priming sugar either
I used carbonation drops for those hence these two elements in this kit are new to me and got me thinking, or overthinking as the case, maybe

Carbonation drops do the same job as adding priming sugar so you could add the sugar directly to the bottles if you preferred, but you would need to ensure you aren't adding too much to some and not enough to others.

shd · Oct 1, 2024

So isn’t it as simple as equally dividing the priming sugar across the 23l (minus a bit cus there’s always some left in the bucket), and popping it straight in to the bottles instead of using the secondary vessel to mix ?

Or am I missing something ?

Apologies for my still paranoia being only on my 3rd ever brew

Stu's Brews · Oct 1, 2024

shd said:
So isn’t it as simple as equally dividing the priming sugar across the 23l (minus a bit cus there’s always some left in the bucket), and popping it straight in to the bottles instead of using the secondary vessel to mix ?

Or am I missing something ?

Apologies for my still paranoia being only on my 3rd ever brew

You are correct, it is that simple.

The only risk is that because you will be dealing with small quantities of sugar per bottle (~2.5g) you may struggle to accurately measure it out, which can lead to inconsistent carbonation levels. Shouldn't be an issue if you take your time and measure carefully.

Bitter_Dave · Oct 1, 2024

Dead easy to measure half a teaspoon of sugar and put it in the bottle via a funnel. Get some cheap measuring spoons. Works for me.

shd · Oct 7, 2024

So I’ve taken my first gravity reading which it says to do after five days after adding the hops
I actually did it on day seven after adding the hops, which I don’t think is a problem is it?
Please see attached photo

So what I’m wondering is for summer glory it says the gravity should be 1.009 but how on earth can anybody measure such accuracy?
I’ll be taking the second reading today and don’t expect it to change as the air lock is seeing no activity so I think it’s ready for bottling

Stu's Brews · Oct 7, 2024

There should be marks for each 0.002 gravity points on the scale, as per the picture below (which shows a beer at 1.012 specific gravity). From your photo it looks like they are round to the side.

Your reading may be being skewed somewhat by the hydrometer being in contact with the side of the trial jar. However, it looks to me like it is closer to 1.002 than 1.009. If that is correct then I'd be worried that some wild yeast or bacteria has got involved in the fermentation and caused over-attenuation. Have you tasted the beer?

shd · Oct 7, 2024

Thanks @Stu's Brews and yes I agree that the gravity looks to be 1.002

So is a lower than suggested gravity a problem then from what you’re saying ?
Personally, I didn’t know that, but I’d still class myself as a homebrew novice

You say wild yeast or bacteria
What would cause this please?
This typically because by something not being ultraclean, perhaps ?
I used VWP

I did try it, but having not tried it before I wouldn’t know what to be looking for in terms of what was a potentially going bad and what the actual taste is

Is there something specific I should be looking for in the taste ?

shd · Oct 7, 2024

FYI here is my OG which looks to be around 1042

Stu's Brews · Oct 7, 2024

shd said:
So is a lower than suggested gravity a problem then from what you’re saying ?

As this is a kit beer you would expect the gravity to finish fairly close to the specified value. There are a few things that can impact the attenuation of the beer:

Mash Temperature - this can be ruled out as you aren't doing the mash.
Yeast Strain - assuming you have used the yeast from the kit then this can also be ruled out. Some yeast strains (e.g. Saison yeasts) have the 'diastaticus' gene that produces an enzyme that will break-down long-chain sugars to make them fermentable.
Yeast Pitching Rate / Health - more likely to cause under-attenuation (i.e. a high final gravity).
Fermentation Temperature - higher temperatures can cause higher attenuation (i.e. lower final gravity), however, I wouldn't expect this to be more than a couple of points difference though.
Wild Yeast or Bacteria - some other yeast or bacteria has got into the wort and fermented sugars that a typical beer yeast wouldn't be able to ferment, resulting in a much lower final gravity.

For a beer to have reached a gravity as low as 1.002 then I would say it most likely has been to exposed to either a diastaticus yeast (only likely if you have previously used one) or some wild yeast/bacteria. Both of these are most likely to be due to poor sanitation.

However, before jumping to conclusions about the beer being infected we should sanity check a few things first:

Is the hydrometer reading accurate? Have you checked the reading with tap water is 1.000?
Does the beer seem to have a very dry finish, e.g. like champagne?
Are there any noticeable signs of infection on the surface of the wort? https://www.morebeer.com/questions/...FieAx_bbhtx1-Yd0_hGp-fmXEaYFpSu-2Qu1gKj4W0Rm5
Does the beer have any noticeable off-flavours that would indicate an infection? https://www.stonebrewing.com/blog/stochasticity-lab/2014/guide-flavors-infection

shd · Oct 7, 2024

Thanks for the reply again
Yes, my hydrometer looks to be fine (see attached photo)
I’ll have a look at some of the links you shared And pop the lid off and take a photo

If an airlock has run out of water, is that a possible way for what You have described to happen ?

I’ve had to top up the airlock a couple of times as it looked low, but I assume mistakenly pouring a minor amount of tapwater into the brew by accident wouldn’t cause this would it ?

Festival - summer glory advice

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