Gelatine

Its6pmsomewhere · Sep 13, 2024

I see a lot of people saying heat your water to 65c and add in the gelatine granules to dissolve etc etc...
I boil my water and let it cool to 65c, am I being over cautious? Heating water to 65c won't pasteurise it unless it's held there for 30mins, boiling and cooling seems safer to me.
I'm not going to change my process just curious on other people's thoughts on it?

hoppyscotty · Sep 13, 2024

my view/understanding is that I think the elevated temperature is to ensure the granuals fully dissolve in the water and don't just float around in suspension where they are serving no purpose. You want the granuals to fully dissolve so when added to the beer it distributes itself within the volume of the beer and the gelatine can do its thing.

Once the beer has fully fermented out I think the importance of properly sterilising water that is already already pretty clean is diminished. No harm in doing so, but it's harder to infect a finished beer with alcohol in it.

Agentgonzo · Sep 13, 2024

I'm with you - boil the water, then let it cool (also, that's simpler as you just get it out of the kettle, then wait a bit, rather than trying to heat it up without overshooting).

But then this raises another question I've had for a while. Why not just put the gelatin straight into boiling/boiled water? Why cool it to 65c? AFAIK, gelatine doesn't denature with heat - when making jelly, you often just add boiling water to the jelly cube (gelatine+sugar+flavour) and it's fine. Why do brewers need to be more cautious with the temperature?

hoppyscotty · Sep 13, 2024

Putting gelatine into too hot water does impact its ability to turn things into jelly so the temperature does impact/degrade it...though in the context of the purpose for which we're using it for, which I believe is more to do with electro statics, It's a good question as to the temperature of the water impacts this property too.

Agentgonzo · Sep 13, 2024

hoppyscotty said:
Putting gelatine into too hot water does impact its ability to turn things into jelly

I didn't know that - thanks!... then why does the packet suggest just pouring boiling water over it?
But you're right - we dont' care about making jelly - just the electrostatics. It's a shame that I broke one of my trial cylinders, otherwise I might be tempted to do a test/experiment to see if it affects its behaviour

hoppyscotty · Sep 13, 2024

Agentgonzo said:
I didn't know that - thanks!... then why does the packet suggest just pouring boiling water over it?
But you're right - we dont' care about making jelly - just the electrostatics. It's a shame that I broke one of my trial cylinders, otherwise I might be tempted to do a test/experiment to see if it affects its behaviour

Well going off the instructions on the gelatine granuals I use, which are the Dr Oetker brand, it specifically says 'never allow gelatine mixture to boil or it will prevent a good set from being acheived', so I read that as don't add to boiling water as it also stipulates to add the gelatine to the liquid, not the liquid to the gelatine. Maybe if you're using leaf gelatine rather than powder it's a bit more tolerant.

I usually just pour out some boiling liquid, leave it out for five minutes or so to cool a bit then add the granuals and give it a good stir for a good few minutes and it seems to have always worked for me.

Agentgonzo · Sep 13, 2024

hoppyscotty said:
so I read that as don't add to boiling water as it also stipulates to add the gelatine to the liquid, not the liquid to the gelatine.

. TBH the instructions on my gelative has been lost with the rest of the box... I was remembering the instructions for making jelly from one of those instant packets when I was a kid, not pure gelatine. Thanks. I'll continue to boil-then-cool the water

The Baron · Sep 13, 2024

Boiled water and let it cool as said do not let the gelatine boil as it will not be as effective.
If you let it cool too much and the gelatine will not dissolve fully pulse it for 10 seconds a time in the microwave and stir until just fully dissolved then add to the beer

JockyBrewer · Sep 13, 2024

Its6pmsomewhere said:
Heating water to 65c won't pasteurise it unless it's held there for 30mins, boiling and cooling seems safer to me.
I'm not going to change my process just curious on other people's thoughts on it?

You’re adding it to finished beer which will have a few % of alcohol in it, as well as the antiseptic effect of hops.

So long as you’re mixing it in a clean glass or ceramic container it’s almost impossible to pick up anything that will harm your beer.

Hazelwood Brewery · Sep 13, 2024

I use leaf gelatine rehydrated in tap water and warmed to dissolve it in the microwave. No issues or concerns.

6Trails · Sep 13, 2024

Yeah I always boil and cool it too just in case and then pressure transfer to the keg.

.Peter. · Sep 14, 2024

1gm Gelatine to 1 gal = 5gms/keg
So for 19L/5 gals Beer

5 gms Gelatine
250cc water
Add Gelatine to (cold) water and let stand about 30 mins stirring gently
Slowly heat water to 65C - 10sec bursts in m/wave
Add to beer

MashBag · Sep 14, 2024

Ask yourself if you boil your water before drinking it?

Just because you are planning to add it to beer doesn't make it instantly toxic.

Steveski · Sep 16, 2024

I always boil some water for a good 10 to 15 mins in a saucepan, pour the appropriate amount into to a old preheated jam jar then boil momentarily in the microwave and fit the lid as quick as possible creating a vacuum as it cools like an unopened jar of jam. This is then allowed to cool and used as per the above method of .Peter.

Why? To reduce the amount of DO as far as possible. If you use straight tap water you could be adding 0.05 to 0.1 ppm of dissolved oxygen to your 19L of pre packaged beer. Probably not important to some but I like to keep the DO to as little as possible.

MashBag · Sep 16, 2024

You go careful there with 0.1 parts per million

I can't even be bothered to sparge for 2 more points

Steveski · Sep 17, 2024

I know, it sounds small but then if you add the same amount of DO with priming sugar solution and then some more during packaging it can add up to beer with a short shelf life.

Eliminating oxygen as far as possible after fermentation has helped improve the shelf life of my brews considerably.

FYI The DO in My tap water has been measured in the past as high as 11 ppm and is typically 8.5. I think there is a minimum requirement of 6.5 for it to be considered healthy to drink but don’t quote me on that.

Agentgonzo · Sep 17, 2024

Steveski said:
I think there is a minimum requirement of 6.5 for it to be considered healthy to drink but don’t quote me on that

I can't see any reason why there would be a minimum level of DO to make it healthy to drink. We don't need oxygen in water we drink.

A quick Google about minimum DO levels all talk about fish tanks/lakes etc where the fish need DO to breathe. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?

MashBag · Sep 17, 2024

Steveski said:
I know, it sounds small but then if you add the same amount of DO with priming sugar solution and then some more during packaging it can add up to beer with a short shelf life.

Short shelf life.. Hmm ... you need to see my other thread

Seriously I admire you attention to detail, but there does come a point when you are kidding yourself.

MashBag · Sep 17, 2024

Agentgonzo said:
I can't see any reason why there would be a minimum level of DO to make it healthy to drink. We don't need oxygen in water we drink.

A quick Google about minimum DO levels all talk about fish tanks/lakes etc where the fish need DO to breathe. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?

Have you never heard the phrase "get your gills round that"?

The Baron · Sep 17, 2024

MashBag said:
Short shelf life.. Hmm ... you need to see my other thread

Seriously I admire you attention to detail, but there does come a point when you are kidding yourself.

I too admire you attention to detail but overkill comes to mind.
I and many brewers have been making beers for years without issues as long as you have a good robust method i.e with good sanitation and no more exposure than is necessary.
I do recommend if doing highly hopped NEIPA.s to maybe look at using pressure ferments and closed transfer but we have been making highly hopped beers for years with out these techniques so I deem it not as critical to go over the top from standard new techniques as I have mentioned however if it floats your boat I would never tell you not to do it just that it is not essential.

Gelatine

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