The downfall of the Tory party.

[foxy]

F*ck it, I'll bite.
The median full time uk wage is 31,000.
I'm in the middle pay scale, Band 6 nurse. My wife manages a holiday lettings company, last summer her cleaners were earning more than me per hour. That surely can't be right.

I don't know how it works over there but here all, or almost all cleaners are contract cleaners working through an agency. The hourly rate charged will also include the the fee of the contractor. Contractors don't get holiday or sick pay or even guaranteed work.

 

[Shirley Bassett]

If you’re a cleaner for a holiday cottage, then most cottages change over on a Saturday between 10am and 4pm.

Finding someone who is willing to work on a weekend comes at a premium.

Finding someone who is good at this work, often makes them invaluable.

Friend of mine had a holiday cottage company. He told me that he had to charge £80 to the client, to cover the cleaning costs in 2010.

He said good cleaners are like rocking horse shut.

I can easily believe that a cottage cleaner can earn a higher rate than a middle earning nurse.

In my opinion nurses et al have my upmost regard. It’s not an easy profession, and it’s unfortunate that Hancock, Hunt and the like convince some that it’s the lower earners in life are the cause of the UKs problems.

 

[foxy]

If you’re a cleaner for a holiday cottage, then most cottages change over on a Saturday between 10am and 4pm.

Finding someone who is willing to work on a weekend comes at a premium.

Finding someone who is good at this work, often makes them invaluable.

Friend of mine had a holiday cottage company. He told me that he had to charge £80 to the client, to cover the cleaning costs in 2010.

He said good cleaners are like rocking horse shut.

I can easily believe that a cottage cleaner can earn a higher rate than a middle earning nurse.

In my opinion nurses et al have my upmost regard. It’s not an easy profession, and it’s unfortunate that Hancock, Hunt and the like convince some that it’s the lower earners in life are the cause of the UKs problems.

All this is the usual scenario, the end user will always be the one who pays. Not the lessor. The train drivers go on strike, the companies running the net work will make a honest attempt to keep the rise to a minimum but at the end of the day who pays for the increase in wages? The end user, Joe Public. Increase in fares might even take in a little extra to keep the share holders happy. Same with nurses, who is going to pay for the increase? Joe Public again.

 

[Polcho]

That’s the basic truth, people want nurses to be highly paid, but simply don’t want to fork out for it.

It’s not long since the government paid us to stay home, very helpful, but it’s all got to be paid for.

It’s all very well saying the government (any government) should do this, pay for that etc, but unless we are all prepared to pay more, it’s not likely to happen.

The budget will be out soon, let’s see what that brings, I’m betting higher taxes on luxury items, beer, cigarettes etc.

I think we have to expect that, I would like to see taxes on pre made/packaged food, the **** in these items is having a massive effect on the health of the population.

Not to mention the huge amount of packaging waste.

I expect electric cars will get hit with road tax too, and smaller engine cars will see an increase in road tax.

I think bottled water in plastic bottles should be taxed out of existence too.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Were i used to work until i rertired in 2017 angency workers were paid 14 pound an hour but, they don't take that home, a large chunk of that goes to the angency

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The median wage is the what the highest number of people are earning.

No - that's the mode.

The median wage is the wage that half of people earn more than, half of people earn less than.

So imagine a small company of 11 people with :

5 "juniors" (receptionist, apprentices etc) at £10/hour wage
1 office manager earning £20/hour
4 revenue earners (plumbers, physiotherapists, whatever) earning £40/hour
1 boss being paid £80/hour

Don't get hung up on the numbers, they're just an example.

In this company the highest number of people are earning £10/hour - that's the mode
The median is £20/hour, as 5 people earn more than that and 5 earn less than that.
The "average" (or more properly the mean) is 5x10 + 1x20 + 4x40 + 1x80 = £310 divided into 11 = £28.18/hour

 

[lancon]

Shouldn't the median be halfway between top and bottom, therefore £45?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Shouldn't the median be halfway between top and bottom, therefore £45?

Nope. The best descriptor if that would probably be the "midpoint". Mathematically, it's not very important so not used much at all and isn't an "average"

The mean is the number you get by dividing the sum of a set of values by the number of values in the set.

In contrast, the median is the middle number in a set of values when those values are arranged from smallest to largest.

The mode of a set of values is the most frequently repeated value in the set.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/average-vs-mean-vs-median-vs-mode/

 

[lancon]

Nope. The best descriptor if that would probably be the "midpoint". Mathematically, it's not very important so not used much at all and isn't an "average"


https://www.dictionary.com/e/average-vs-mean-vs-median-vs-mode/

Apologies

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Shouldn't the median be halfway between top and bottom, therefore £45?

No. It's perhaps more obvious with a more bottom-heavy distribution, of say

10 @ £10
1 @ £11
9 @ £20
1 @ £100

In this case the mean is £18.62, the mode is £10 and the median is £11 - a long way from the midpoint of £55, which only 1 person earns more than.

 

[Bernie]

No - that's the mode.

The median wage is the wage that half of people earn more than, half of people earn less than.

So imagine a small company of 11 people with :

5 "juniors" (receptionist, apprentices etc) at £10/hour wage
1 office manager earning £20/hour
4 revenue earners (plumbers, physiotherapists, whatever) earning £40/hour
1 boss being paid £80/hour

Don't get hung up on the numbers, they're just an example.

In this company the highest number of people are earning £10/hour - that's the mode
The median is £20/hour, as 5 people earn more than that and 5 earn less than that.
The "average" (or more properly the mean) is 5x10 + 1x20 + 4x40 + 1x80 = £310 divided into 11 = £28.18/hour

I stand corrected.
I was trying to make a point was that the median and mode are quite a lot less that the average in Britain because of the few high earners at the top of the distribution curve. So, quoting an average wage as what a person deserves is a little reductive.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I stand corrected.
I was trying to make a point was that the median and mode are quite a lot less that the average in Britain because of the few high earners at the top of the distribution curve. So, quoting an average wage as what a person deserves is a little reductive.

Both the median and the mode (along with the mean)  are an "average".

 

[Bernie]

Both the median and the mode (along with the mean)  are an "average".

Which average should one choose to claim to be hard done by?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Which average should one choose to claim to be hard done by?

For me all those workers the government hit with a 7 year pay freeze should go in your "hard done by" category.

 

[moto748]

That’s the basic truth, people want nurses to be highly paid, but simply don’t want to fork out for it.
It’s not long since the government paid us to stay home, very helpful, but it’s all got to be paid for.
It’s all very well saying the government (any government) should do this, pay for that etc, but unless we are all prepared to pay more, it’s not likely to happen.

This. And this is why politicians are such cowards. They should be making the case for taxation, which will fund the services we all need and expect, instead of weasel words about 'efficiency savings', or whining that "the other lot will put your taxes up". It's so dishonest.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Nursing union the Royal College of Nursing announces first strike in its 106-year history​

The RCN had called for its members to receive a pay rise of 5% above the RPI inflation rate, which currently stands at above 12

A nursing union representing hundreds of thousands of nurses in the UK has voted to hold the first nationwide strike in its 106-year history.

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) said the strike will affect the majority of NHS employers in the UK as nurses take action against pay levels and patient safety concerns.

The union said that many of the biggest hospitals in England would see strike action but others "narrowly missed" the legal turnout thresholds required for action.

All NHS employers in Northern Ireland and Scotland would be included and all bar one in Wales met the threshold, they added.

RCN general secretary and chief executive Pat Cullen said: "Anger has become action - our members are saying enough is enough.

"The voice of nursing in the UK is strong and I will make sure it is heard. Our members will no longer tolerate a financial knife edge at home and a raw deal at work.

"Ministers must look in the mirror and ask how long they will put nursing staff through this.

"While we plan our strike action, next week's budget is the UK government's opportunity to signal a new direction with serious investment. Across the country, politicians have the power to stop this now and at any point.

"This action will be as much for patients as it is for nurses.

"Standards are falling too low and we have strong public backing for our campaign to raise them. This winter, we are asking the public to show nursing staff you are with us."

The union had urged more than 300,000 of its members to vote for industrial action over pay in the first statutory ballot on industrial action across the UK in the 106-year history of the Royal College of Nursing.

It had called for its members to receive a pay rise of 5% above the RPI inflation rate, which currently stands at above 12%.

This request has not been met by any UK nation.

Recent analysis showed an experienced nurse's salary has fallen by 20% in real terms since 2010, the RCN said, adding that nurses are working the equivalent of one day a week for nothing.

'Deep regret' and 'challenging times' - health minister's response

Health and Social Care Secretary Steve Barclay said: "We are all hugely grateful for the hard work and dedication of NHS staff, including nurses, and deeply regret that some union members have voted for industrial action.

"These are challenging times, which is why we accepted the recommendations of the independent NHS Pay Review Body in full and have given over one million NHS workers a pay rise of at least £1,400 this year.

"This is on top of a 3% pay increase last year when public sector pay was frozen and wider government support with the cost of living.

"Our priority is keeping patients safe during any strikes. The NHS has tried and tested plans in place to minimise disruption and ensure emergency services continue to operate."

'A strike across the NHS this winter isn't inevitable'

Wes Streeting MP, Labour's shadow health secretary, said: "There were no strikes in the NHS during 13 years when Labour was last in government.

"If we were in office today, we would be talking with the RCN and doing everything we can to prevent these strikes going ahead."

The British Medical Association, which represents doctors, offered "support and solidarity" to nurses, with deputy chair Dr Emma Runswick adding: "It is still within the government's gift to pay healthcare staff fairly for the vital, often lifesaving work that they do.

"We urge government to listen to the concerns of frontline health staff and deliver the investment that the NHS and its workforce so desperately need."

Meanwhile, health workers in other unions, including ambulance staff, hospital porters and cleaners, are also voting on industrial action over pay.

UNISON head of health Sara Gorton said: "A strike across the NHS this winter isn't inevitable.

"Unions want to work with ministers to solve the NHS staffing crisis and its impact on patient care. But that must start with another pay rise for health workers. Otherwise, delays and waits for patients won't reduce."

https://news.sky.com/story/nursing-...first-strike-in-its-106-year-history-12742357

 

[Polcho]

A trained soldier in the British army is expected to put his or her life on the line in unbelievable conditions whenever required, for £21,424 a year.
If they don’t like it, they leave.
Consider buying a poppy

 

[Rodcx500z]

I always buy a poppy and donate when ever i see veterans collecting, Joining the armed forces is not for everybody and you know 100% when you do you may be called upon thats why we have one of the best militarys in the world, the other side of the coin is you get to learn some great skills electronics engineering and a host of other skills and get to see the world, and you have to remember it,s people like Putin and other leaders who cause wars

 

[Chippy_Tea]

A trained soldier in the British army is expected to put his or her life on the line in unbelievable conditions whenever required, for £21,424 a year.

All nurses put their lives on the line every day for over two years when covid hit that is not what they signed up for but they did it without moaning, when you join the army you know you may have to go to war and risk getting killed though the odds of it happening are fairly low..
It takes a special breed of person to do both these jobs let's not compare them in yet another race to the bottom.

 

[Bernie]

Nursing union the Royal College of Nursing announces first strike in its 106-year history​

The RCN had called for its members to receive a pay rise of 5% above the RPI inflation rate, which currently stands at above 12

A nursing union representing hundreds of thousands of nurses in the UK has voted to hold the first nationwide strike in its 106-year history.

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) said the strike will affect the majority of NHS employers in the UK as nurses take action against pay levels and patient safety concerns.

The union said that many of the biggest hospitals in England would see strike action but others "narrowly missed" the legal turnout thresholds required for action.

All NHS employers in Northern Ireland and Scotland would be included and all bar one in Wales met the threshold, they added.

RCN general secretary and chief executive Pat Cullen said: "Anger has become action - our members are saying enough is enough.

"The voice of nursing in the UK is strong and I will make sure it is heard. Our members will no longer tolerate a financial knife edge at home and a raw deal at work.

"Ministers must look in the mirror and ask how long they will put nursing staff through this.

"While we plan our strike action, next week's budget is the UK government's opportunity to signal a new direction with serious investment. Across the country, politicians have the power to stop this now and at any point.

"This action will be as much for patients as it is for nurses.

"Standards are falling too low and we have strong public backing for our campaign to raise them. This winter, we are asking the public to show nursing staff you are with us."

The union had urged more than 300,000 of its members to vote for industrial action over pay in the first statutory ballot on industrial action across the UK in the 106-year history of the Royal College of Nursing.

It had called for its members to receive a pay rise of 5% above the RPI inflation rate, which currently stands at above 12%.

This request has not been met by any UK nation.

Recent analysis showed an experienced nurse's salary has fallen by 20% in real terms since 2010, the RCN said, adding that nurses are working the equivalent of one day a week for nothing.

'Deep regret' and 'challenging times' - health minister's response

Health and Social Care Secretary Steve Barclay said: "We are all hugely grateful for the hard work and dedication of NHS staff, including nurses, and deeply regret that some union members have voted for industrial action.

"These are challenging times, which is why we accepted the recommendations of the independent NHS Pay Review Body in full and have given over one million NHS workers a pay rise of at least £1,400 this year.

"This is on top of a 3% pay increase last year when public sector pay was frozen and wider government support with the cost of living.

"Our priority is keeping patients safe during any strikes. The NHS has tried and tested plans in place to minimise disruption and ensure emergency services continue to operate."

'A strike across the NHS this winter isn't inevitable'

Wes Streeting MP, Labour's shadow health secretary, said: "There were no strikes in the NHS during 13 years when Labour was last in government.

"If we were in office today, we would be talking with the RCN and doing everything we can to prevent these strikes going ahead."

The British Medical Association, which represents doctors, offered "support and solidarity" to nurses, with deputy chair Dr Emma Runswick adding: "It is still within the government's gift to pay healthcare staff fairly for the vital, often lifesaving work that they do.

"We urge government to listen to the concerns of frontline health staff and deliver the investment that the NHS and its workforce so desperately need."

Meanwhile, health workers in other unions, including ambulance staff, hospital porters and cleaners, are also voting on industrial action over pay.

UNISON head of health Sara Gorton said: "A strike across the NHS this winter isn't inevitable.

"Unions want to work with ministers to solve the NHS staffing crisis and its impact on patient care. But that must start with another pay rise for health workers. Otherwise, delays and waits for patients won't reduce."

https://news.sky.com/story/nursing-...first-strike-in-its-106-year-history-12742357

The waste in the NHS is huge. It does not need more money. Greater funding would be like giving an obese person more food to keep his strength up. If the nurses want more pay it can be found within the NHS budget already and this should be taken up with the administration. It may be better to recruit administrative staff who are prepared to make some tough decisions.