Nitrogen for dispense?

[dcbrookes]

A story in The Guardian today says that CO2 has quadrupled in price recently, that two of the factories making it in the UK are temporarily closed, and that supply difficulties are here again. I am wondering if anyone has tried dispensing ready carbonated beer using pure nitrogen? As I pressure ferment and transfer my beer into kegs at 10psi, I do not need CO2 for carbonation: would dispensing with pure nitrogen be feasible?

 

[gyurmaember]

I checked Adam's gas quickly, their prices apparently the same, and when we had the last shortage my stockist said if I'm an existing customer there's no reason they can't exchange my bottle. So don't panic.

I wouldn't buy a separate regulator, and a new bottle just for nitrogen.

 

[peebee]

The laws of physics will scupper you! If you like your beer carbonated at 10 PSI and you start adding Nitrogen at 10 PSI you'll very quickly notice your carbonation is getting less, even though you are keeping the pressure the same. Read up on "partial pressure". As physics goes, it's quite easy to understand. I think the hardest bit I found is you work everything out in relation to a vacuum and not atmospheric pressure (14.7PSI). I.E. zero PSI is a vacuum!

Basically, nitrogen does not help you. You can get "mixed gas" (N2 plus CO2), but you'll find it's probably MORE expensive than pure CO2.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I spoke with my gas supplier today (My gas ran out this morning and he delivered a new bottle a little while later - service!). He said that Adams have not advised him of a price change and he would normally be advised well beforehand if there was a change in the pipeline. He also said his supplies are not limited as they were when the factories stopped producing fertiliser so for the moment at least there is no risk to supply and no imminent price change.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

The laws of physics will scupper you! If you like your beer carbonated at 10 PSI and you start adding Nitrogen at 10 PSI you'll very quickly notice your carbonation is getting less, even though you are keeping the pressure the same. Read up on "partial pressure". As physics goes, it's quite easy to understand. I think the hardest bit I found is you work everything out in relation to a vacuum and not atmospheric pressure (14.7PSI). I.E. zero PSI is a vacuum!

Basically, nitrogen does not help you. You can get "mixed gas" (N2 plus CO2), but you'll find it's probably MORE expensive than pure CO2.

It’s a similar price for CO2 and for mixed gas.

I would perhaps use 8psi for a stout using CO2 and 40psi when using 30/70 mixed gas.

It’s a different regulator too for those that maybe aren’t aware.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@Hazelwood Brewery
Not a different regulator just a different connector, you can swap get the correct one from BOC and swap it over on your regulator.
OR find someone who will fill your CO2 cylinder with beer gas but they have to have CO2 and nitrogen filling facilities and so would be tricky to find. I was lucky!

OR get one of these they have a tabletop dispenser that isn't cheap but in long run it's " free " nitro pours.
https://nitrobrew.com/Trouble is if I had this it would be nitro everything at first, nitro milk might be messy.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

@Hazelwood Brewery
Not a different regulator just a different connector, you can swap get the correct one from BOC and swap it over on your regulator.
OR find someone who will fill your CO2 cylinder with beer gas but they have to have CO2 and nitrogen filling facilities and so would be tricky to find. I was lucky!

OR get one of these they have a tabletop dispenser that isn't cheap but in long run it's " free " nitro pours.
https://nitrobrew.com/Trouble is if I had this it would be nitro everything at first, nitro milk might be messy.

I use CO2 and mixed gas so I need (and have) both anyway.

This kit troubles me though, the cheapest model appears to be $300. This would cover the cost of the regulator and about 60Kgs of mixed gas - probably last longer?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

9.45 kg as best I can work out of beer gas in a G cylinder ( 7.45 m3) here costs about 130 pounds, regulator or adapter about 30 pounds.
I have CO2 and beer gas but will need to make this jump when my beer gas runs out as my beer gas mixer is no more available sadly.
So the costings are getting more realistic for me. CO2 is about 10 pounds a kilo as well.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

9.45 kg as best I can work out of beer gas in a G cylinder ( 7.45 m3) here costs about 130 pounds, regulator or adapter about 30 pounds.
I have CO2 and beer gas but will need to make this jump when my beer gas runs out as my beer gas mixer is no more available sadly.
So the costings are getting more realistic for me. CO2 is about 10 pounds a kilo as well.

That’s a lot more than we pay here.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

That’s a lot more than we pay here.

That is but our electricity only 11pence a kWh. I'm using more electricity than gas ( CO2)

 

[peebee]

@Hazelwood Brewery
Not a different regulator just a different connector, you can swap get the correct one from BOC and swap it over on your regulator.
OR find someone who will fill your CO2 cylinder with beer gas but they have to have CO2 and nitrogen filling facilities and so would be tricky to find. I was lucky!

OR get one of these they have a tabletop dispenser that isn't cheap but in long run it's " free " nitro pours.
https://nitrobrew.com/Trouble is if I had this it would be nitro everything at first, nitro milk might be messy.

That's dangerous! If I was to exchange the attachment nut on my regulator (if I could!), it could explode if attached to a compressed gas cylinder at 2 or 3 times the pressure in a CO2 cylinder. Not everyone uses the "safe" neanderthal regulators often hawked about for CO2. Not everyone has the knowledge to know the difference in gas cylinders. So, there is going to be someone where that suggestion ends with ... :tinhat:

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

That's dangerous! If I was to exchange the attachment nut on my regulator (if I could!), it could explode if attached to a compressed gas cylinder at 2 or 3 times the pressure in a CO2 cylinder. Not everyone uses the "safe" neanderthal regulators often hawked about for CO2. Not everyone has the knowledge to know the difference in gas cylinders. So, there is going to be someone where that suggestion ends with ... :tinhat:

That’s a good point @peebee , the dispense pressure is one thing but the cylinder pressure is another. A CO2 cylinder might be at 600-800psi where a mixed gas cylinder is 2500-3000psi.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Well if you use a cheap/ weak regulator you're asking for trouble. BOC will change the stem and check it if you went that route. I just bought another gas specific regulator.
Oxygen cylinder the biggest hazard if it leaks unless trapped in a confined/ poorly ventilated space.

 

[peebee]

Well if you use a cheap/ weak regulator you're asking for trouble. ...

I like my "aquarium" CO2 regulators. Small, fixed output (60-75 PSI); I use secondary regulators downstream. But they're not cheap anymore because they keep adding all sorts of paraphernalia that I don't need.

... Oxygen cylinder the biggest hazard if it leaks unless trapped in a confined/ poorly ventilated space.

Like early Apollo space capsules