Your views on how the Tories have handled Coronavirus.

[Rodcx500z]

I to fall in this bracket, no mortgage 2 kids still at home but earning, i am not minted but more money than i have ever had but i worked for it

 

[Buffers brewery]

There are 2 issues raised here. Corporation tax avoidance by multinational internet based companies and IMHO the WORLD has been too slow in sorting how to tax such companies. My opinion. Tax should be levied on gross sales in the country collecting the tax but BEFORE expenses thus avoiding transferring cash as expenses to lower tax countries.
Income tax needs to be changed. My opinion. There should be more break points and more tax rates. But that’s the dilemma. Everybody wants the government to put more money into the NHS but the government doesn’t have any money....only tax payers money.

 

[pms67]

I love/hate how the worldwide pandemic quickly turns into a money discussion.
When I listen to the news all I hear is “when will the lockdown be lifted to help the economy?”
Sickening but not surprising.
Worldly greed rules everything.

 

[MyQul]

I love/hate how the worldwide pandemic quickly turns into a money discussion.
When I listen to the news all I hear is “when will the lockdown be lifted to help the economy?”
Sickening but not surprising.
Worldly greed rules everything.

Whilst I agree we need to focus on the human tragedy of the pandemic. C-19 is causing massive financial turbulance. Look at how many people have now become unemployed cause by the lockdown ; there's a deep recession (if not depression) on the way, if not caused, hastened by C-19. Etc, etc The two are linked inextricably

 

[pms67]

Whilst I agree we need to focus on the human tragedy of the pandemic. C-19 is causing massive financial turbulance. Look at how many people have now become unemployed cause by the lockdown ; there's a deep recession (if not depression) on the way, if not caused, hastened by C-19. Etc, etc The two are linked inextricably

Yes they are MyQul but it’s almost as if let’s forget about the 900 odd dead per day and focus on when we can get back to work!
The BBC sensationalise Italy and Spain numbers but we are racing ahead and by focusing on the shortage of PPE and when we can relax lockdown measures it’s almost as is if let’s hope the general public don’t really notice how bad things are and we can get back to normal ASAP.
It’s a bloody mess.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Having never been one of those i have to have the lastest this or that you know the type i mean to get what i mean you need to get on a golf coarse with a set of 30 year old clubs and thrash the arse off some smart arse with with all the lastest gear costing thousands tickles me pink you can read their mind, how the feck does he do that with them, there must be a lot of rich folks at the moment canning it flash car mortgaged to the hilt, i used to have a boss who had every thing nice house flash bm all mod cons i would say were you going on hols this year answer no were, do i feel for these people yes i do ? is will they learn from it

 

[MyQul]

Yes they are MyQul but it’s almost as if let’s forget about the 900 odd dead per day and focus on when we can get back to work!
The BBC sensationalise Italy and Spain numbers but we are racing ahead and by focusing on the shortage of PPE and when we can relax lockdown measures it’s almost as is if let’s hope the general public don’t really notice how bad things are and we can get back to normal ASAP.
It’s a bloody mess.

Your right, it's a massive cock up because we faffed around to long rather than taking decisive actions like other countries. It's almost as if people cant get their heads around how many people are dying and will die (I've read that some predictions are that the UK will end up with the highest number of dead in Europe) and so people are distracting themselves with other issues, like,as you mention, lack of PPE.

 

[foxy]

There are 2 issues raised here. Corporation tax avoidance by multinational internet based companies and IMHO the WORLD has been too slow in sorting how to tax such companies. My opinion. Tax should be levied on gross sales in the country collecting the tax but BEFORE expenses thus avoiding transferring cash as expenses to lower tax countries.
Income tax needs to be changed. My opinion. There should be more break points and more tax rates. But that’s the dilemma. Everybody wants the government to put more money into the NHS but the government doesn’t have any money....only tax payers money.

Sales tax should have been changed years ago, its been out of date for about 30 years. I read an article from a think tank where the best way to collect extra revenue was through fuel, gas and electricity. Whereby the wealthy would pay more for the simple fact they use more.
That's now fallen by the wayside with the technology in the solar industry, batteries, and electric cars.

I love/hate how the worldwide pandemic quickly turns into a money discussion.
When I listen to the news all I hear is “when will the lockdown be lifted to help the economy?”
Sickening but not surprising.
Worldly greed rules everything.

I think that most people on this forum would agree with you, the economy of a country doesn't matter, its just a greed thing.
There is going to be high unemployment, this is going to start a domino effect, the jobless means there is less money spent on consumables, less money spent means, even more jobless and so it goes on.
There could well be massive food shortages world wide, UK imports most of its food, price of food will start to rise dramatically, so for pensioners and the jobless times are going to get harder.

 

[MyQul]

There could well be massive food shortages world wide, UK imports most of its food, price of food will start to rise dramatically, so for pensioners and the jobless times are going to get harder.

I'd also add the working poor to that as they're are huge amounts of people in this country that work but are so poor they also have to claim benefits like tax credits, child benefit and housing benefit

 

[Buffers brewery]

A couple of observations.
Talking about money and the economy at the time of a pandemic is not greed in itself. The discussion was looking ahead and considering what might need to be changed. I believe there is a national consensus that more investment was needed in the health service. The money (investment) has to come from the tax payer somehow.
I’m not an economist but think of “the economy” as a self fuelling vortex, in that business employs workers who pay tax and buy products. Tax is used to provide services to the population to enable individuals to set up businesses. Buying products enables business to continue. No businesses = no jobs = no tax = no services. Each is dependent on the other to survive.

 

[simon12]

Whilst this is technically true, it is an overly simplistic and somewhat misleading viewpoint.

Your statement implies that the conservative government has increased spending over and above the average that was already being spent on the NHS. A study by the Kings Fund published 13.03.20 however demonstrated that the amount spent on the NHS over the last decade by the conservatives - whilst technically an increase - is well under half (actually around 60% less) of the average of the typical year on year increase that is necessary to be spent on the NHS since it’s inception to allow it to keep up with the increase in demand for services. Note this ‘increase’ in spending is not there to necessarily provide new services or improve current services, but to allow the NHS to keep up with a steadily increasing demand and complexity of caseload due to an increasingly ageing population with multiple comorbidities and an increased demand for services. This reduction in funding by the conservatives (whilst still expecting increased productivity and workload for staff working in the NHS) has resulted in the closure of many GP surgeries up and down the country, cuts to services, clinician burnout and increased waiting times.

“Though funding for the Department of Health and Social Care continues to grow, the rate of growth slowed during the period of austerity that followed the 2008 economic crash. Budgets rose by 1.4 per cent each year on average (adjusting for inflation) in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises since the NHS was established.”

They went on to say:

“While the new NHS funding deal will ease current pressures, it is not enough to both restore performance against key waiting times standards and deliver widespread changes to services to deliver better care.”

Full report available here:
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Sorry i'm not having that my statement was an absolute fact refuting your absolute lie if you want to put balance on it start from that.

 

[foxy]

A couple of observations.
Talking about money and the economy at the time of a pandemic is not greed in itself. The discussion was looking ahead and considering what might need to be changed. I believe there is a national consensus that more investment was needed in the health service. The money (investment) has to come from the tax payer somehow.
I’m not an economist but think of “the economy” as a self fuelling vortex, in that business employs workers who pay tax and buy products. Tax is used to provide services to the population to enable individuals to set up businesses. Buying products enables business to continue. No businesses = no jobs = no tax = no services. Each is dependent on the other to survive.

This is what could, and probably will happen.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/depression-global-economy-coronavirus/

 

[Session]

Sorry i'm not having that my statement was an absolute fact refuting your absolute lie if you want to put balance on it start from that.

Did you read my post/the article I linked to? Are you familiar with the Kings Fund? I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say here to be honest Simon.

 

[Session]

Duplicate post

 

[foxy]

I had resolved to shut up and leave "enough said", but you make my point for me so well that a word of thanks is needed. When you were in Afrghanistan, did you have the proper equipment? Was your kit appropriate to the terrain? Did your weapons work or were you left to do your "duty" without a care for your safety? If the latter, would you not expect those who voted for the Government that sent you there to put up an outcry?
Doctors and nurses are also on the front line. They are no less brave and in no less danger than you and your comrades were. There are all "doing their duty" in spite of the fact that it's in all their minds that they shouldn't be there risking themselves, and their families when they go home. And so, we, the people who elect governments, make an outcry when these brave souls are not given the proper tools to do the job. When their safety and wellbeing isn't top priority. Yes, it's the quality of a good soldier, wherever the battle may be, to do what is required of him or her without demur. It is the duty of those on whose behalf the soldiers fight to do what they can to make sure they actually have a "fighting chance".
I thank you for making this point so nicely and I expand on it simply to show that I have fully understood.

A quick googling of "vietnamese beer" comes up with a description which includes "Many people also prefer the taste of imported or international brands like Heineken, Tiger, Biere Larue, Budweiser, and Sapporo" so I guess it's not that good.

I think you may have watched to many movies, front line there is only a medic, proper equipment? Nothing that can stop limbs getting blown off from a land mine, nothing to stop a sniper taking you out.
FYI that was in a Vietnamese restaurant in Melbourne so no I wasn't drinking Vietnamese beer, also throughout South East Asia there is not a lot of difference in the beers, most breweries were set up by the Germans, so all beers are pretty similar.

 

[MyQul]

FYI that was in a Vietnamese restaurant in Melbourne so no I wasn't drinking Vietnamese beer, also throughout South East Asia there is not a lot of difference in the beers, most breweries were set up by the Germans, so all beers are pretty similar.

This could be complete BS but I've read that Asians dont handle alcohol well (genetically?). This is because before water was safe to drink,we in the west were all brewing beer and wine to make a safe to drink liquid. Whilst Asians were all making a safe liquid to drink by boiling their water in the form of tea.
So I guess Asia wouldn't have an ancient tradition of Alcoholic drinks? The only 'traditional' Asian alcoholic drink I can think of is rice wine/sake

 

[lancon]

Sorry i'm not having that my statement was an absolute fact refuting your absolute lie if you want to put balance on it start from that.

It is true that what you said was an absolute fact, NHS spending did go up every year, I think that it has gone up every year. However that doesn't make the Session reply a lie.
The point that was being made is that the increase in spending was not enough, especially as the NHS has had to cater for the patients that cannot be discharged home due to insufficient care being provided there due the local council cuts who look after social care.

 

[MyQul]

It is true that what you said was an absolute fact, NHS spending did go up every year, I think that it has gone up every year. However that doesn't make the Session reply a lie.
The point that was being made is that the increase in spending was not enough, especially as the NHS has had to cater for the patients that cannot be discharged home due to insufficient care being provided there due the local council cuts who look after social care.

This. I know I work in social care. It makes sense that if even though NHS spending is going up but social care spending is going down but by more than NHS spending. Then Overall NHS spending is going down. It's not and exact 'see -saw' as NHS funding is centrally funded whereas Social care is funded by local councils. It's one of the reasons we get 'bed blockers'. As there's nowhere to discharge elderly paitents to so they end up costing the NHS loads

 

[MyQul]

This is what could, and probably will happen.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/depression-global-economy-coronavirus/

32.1% unemployment!

 

[Buffers brewery]

32.1% unemployment!

Projected US unemployment.