Yet another PID and Pump Question

[barkar]

Hi , setting up a herms system and the forum is superb databse of knowledge . I am neither a sparky or a plumber (a bean counter if the truth be told) :) so need help with this . Looking to buy a pid and came across these , worried that they wont do the job are they suitable for a ssr ?

http://cgi.ebay.ie/PID-SSR-TEMPERAT..._Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item35a94ceb4d

Also i seen these carvan pumps
http://cgi.ebay.ie/12V-DC-Hot-Water...arden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item4cef50ce39
http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-2L-DC-12V-0-...den_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item4aa0c07a40
http://cgi.ebay.ie/12v-Water-Pressu...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item563b111b7e

I like the look of the third one , alittle bit expensive but it seems to allow you to run dry and only starts once the valves are open

Any help would be appreciated these are the last remianing things of my build but casuing the most concern
:?

 

[jamesb]

A lot of us are using these PIDs

http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/uni...perature-controller-oven-kiln-001480-138.html

There's also a discount code to use as a member of this forum.

 

[pjbiker]

Regarding 12V pumps, these aren't bad. I've just fitted one and it does the job

http://www.solarproject.co.uk/page2.html

 

[barkar]

Regarding 12V pumps, these aren't bad. I've just fitted one and it does the job

They look good and seem reasonably priced , do you find its ok for recirulating the mash etc. also do they allow you to run it dry when connecting, i know some of the pumps aren'tthat forgiving

I like th look of the third one as it seems to be fairly forgiving in that you need to have all the valves open for the pipes connected beforei ts starts to run or kick in
For the 12 v jobbies is it easy to connect them up to plugs ? ie is there a special trasnfromer needed ? :?

 

[pjbiker]

To be honest, mine is a bit rubbish until it is primed ie. won't pump when full of air, but few centrifugal pumps are. You don't want to run it 'dry' for an extended period.
It is perfect for mash recirculation, restrict the outlet using a ball valve as opposed to restricting the outlet. Think of mounting the pump where you will be able to purge air from it using gravity.

I have mine attached direct to an old motorbike battery. One of it's cells was knackered so it's a bit down on voltage. I throttled it down to about 0.8L/min for collecting during the sparge. It strains the motor a bit but it was OK. Another guy uses a transformer from a train set to vary Voltage, this would be preferable, I plan on finding a variable resistor (maybe from a car radio volume control) to control the voltage at some point but its OK for now.

 

[rick_huggins]

A lot of us are using these PIDs

http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/uni...perature-controller-oven-kiln-001480-138.html

There's also a discount code to use as a member of this forum.

ooh, what's the code and is there a typical parts list for ssr, pid & pt100?

 

[Lurch]

Don't get your pt100 from those dudes, they're 5mm and that's a pig to get compression fittings for.

 

[Dieseljockey]

"pjbiker"
To be honest, mine is a bit rubbish until it is primed ie. won't pump when full of air, but few centrifugal pumps are. You don't want to run it 'dry' for an extended period.

Like Barkar
I'm putting together plans for a 100 L setup...and I'm now looking at pumps..the way I look at it is why pay £25/30 for a pump that will "sort of " do the job..when you go down the 12 volt road ok, it's safer...no problems..but as all ready stated you'll need a transformer....why not pay another £10 and get a Totton pump that's made for the job...don't get me wrong I've got to make my setup at a cost that I can justify (to the memsaib)..but for that extra small cost I really think it's worth it.

D.J

 

[barkar]

My problem is that i want to pump wort to a chiller plate via the pump and back to the boiler until i know the cold break is back in the boiler and then after pump to fermenter.
At what temperature should the cold break settle out - i think about 77 c ? This means possibly pumping at just below 100c, the only pump s i am ware of that are reasonbaly priced are those solar jobbies are rated to beyond 100c so i could pump dircetly to chiller rather than use gravity and then from chiller back to fermentor. I will have a splatter screen fitted to the back of the boiler tap hoping that would be fine enough to catch all or the majority of the cold break
Anyway with them totton pumps is it easy to fit compression fittings on it . i have orderred screw on 1/2 inch fittings quick disconnect s on teh basis that the solar one would be sufficient

I got pids from Virtual village and have 2 k thermocouples , have seen elsewhere on this forum that alot us the pt100 sensor :wha: . Is there any differnce between the two , both have thermal shaft thingie that seem to be easy enough to fit to a compression T etc


Also to all u thermobox users , have you seen noticeable losses in temperature by not recirculating during mash

 

[mentaldental]

Also to all u thermobox users , have you seen noticeable losses in temperature by not recirculating during mash

I used to recirculate through my insulated mash tun (which would lost about 1C in an hour otherwise) and got a surprisingly large and unacceptable temperature drop. In the end I overcame this by going down the RIMS route.

If you find this a problem I would suggest recirculating sparge water through your pump and pipework to preheat the system and make sure that it is insulated.

 

[ano]

Also to all u thermobox users , have you seen noticeable losses in temperature by not recirculating during mash

I used to recirculate through my insulated mash tun (which would lost about 1C in an hour otherwise) and got a surprisingly large and unacceptable temperature drop. In the end I overcame this by going down the RIMS route.

If you find this a problem I would suggest recirculating sparge water through your pump and pipework to preheat the system and make sure that it is insulated.

I'm guessing that you were recircing without any extra heat provided until adopting RIMS?

I got pids from Virtual village and have 2 k thermocouples , have seen elsewhere on this forum that alot us the pt100 sensor . Is there any differnce between the two , both have thermal shaft thingie that seem to be easy enough to fit to a compression T etc

A thermocouple type temperature sensor will measure resistance at the junction between two metals where a PT100 uses the known change of resistance with temperature of platinum. Ostensibly PT100s are better due to their slightly better out of the box absolute accuracy but k-type thermocouples are also a well used sensor by homebrewers.

 

[Lurch]

A thermocouple type temperature sensor will measure resistance at the junction between two metals where a PT100 uses the known change of resistance with temperature of platinum. Ostensibly PT100s are better due to their slightly better out of the box absolute accuracy but k-type thermocouples are also a well used sensor by homebrewers.

Close but no cigar.
Thermocouples work on the Seebeck effect which loosely means that there is a potential difference between the 'hot' (measuring) junction of two disimilar metal and the 'cold' (reference, usually at the meter point) junction.

Personally I would rather use a piece of wet string than a thermocouple but if I was forced at gunpoint to use one I'd chose type T over type K as the tolerances are much better. Type T is widely used in catering applications partly because of this and partly because of it's suitability for cold temperatures.
I don't think I can say this often enough, there is no reason whatsoever to chose type K unless you need to measure high temperatures and the is no good reason to chose a thermcouple over a resistive sensor (pt100, silicon sensors etc) and lots of reasons not to (connection issues, wiring requirements, secondary hot junctions).
This advice comes from experience gained from many years in sensor manufacturing btw.

 

[barkar]

Didnt realis a wet piece of string could also work :grin:
Anyway sounds like i will be sending back to virtual village and getting some proper kit, to me a sensor is a sensor , would it do until i got a PT100 , it snot really financail viable to send back something that cost £2 when the pp is nearly that alone etc.

Looking forward to setting up the herms systems everything bought just to connect up , looking forward to the first brew, using a mash in the boiler at the moment which is compact but efficiencies are rubbish over 4kg of grain - sparge water can tend to run in holes or down the side of the boiler

 

[Lurch]

If you've already got the gear then you might as well use it, you'll need to calibrate the sensor though. Thermocouple tolerances aren't much to shout about so you could be a couple of degrees out.
Just bear in mind next time you are buying!

 

[pjbiker]

"pjbiker"
To be honest, mine is a bit rubbish until it is primed ie. won't pump when full of air, but few centrifugal pumps are. You don't want to run it 'dry' for an extended period.

Like Barkar
I'm putting together plans for a 100 L setup...and I'm now looking at pumps..the way I look at it is why pay £25/30 for a pump that will "sort of " do the job..when you go down the 12 volt road ok, it's safer...no problems..but as all ready stated you'll need a transformer....why not pay another £10 and get a Totton pump that's made for the job...don't get me wrong I've got to make my setup at a cost that I can justify (to the memsaib)..but for that extra small cost I really think it's worth it.

D.J

Fair comment D J. I gather totton pumps are the mutts nuts if you can get them at a good price go for it. Still fairly pleased with my 12V one. The thing is I already had a couple of spare 12V batteries and I figured I was slightly less likely to blow something up :grin:

 

[pjbiker]

My problem is that i want to pump wort to a chiller plate via the pump and back to the boiler until i know the cold break is back in the boiler and then after pump to fermenter.
At what temperature should the cold break settle out - i think about 77 c ? This means possibly pumping at just below 100c, the only pump s i am ware of that are reasonbaly priced are those solar jobbies are rated to beyond 100c so i could pump dircetly to chiller rather than use gravity and then from chiller back to fermentor. I will have a splatter screen fitted to the back of the boiler tap hoping that would be fine enough to catch all or the majority of the cold break

Careful, the cold break material has a tendency to clog your pump. put your pump before the plate chiller. The hops will filter it out when you pump from the boiler to FV. Yes, I use a solar jobbie pump. Others may not be rated for such high temperatures but if mine can do it, I'm sure a 240V Totton can too, maybe just not at the same rate as with lower temperatures.

Also, I still pump straight through my chiller and collect along with cold break in the FV. Controversial, but that's what my friendly microbrewer does and he don't worry about it. I did try your method once and found my hop strainer got clogged with cold break and didn't try it again.

 

[Aleman]

My March May 809-PL-HS-230V will handle temperatures up to 120C . . . and quite happily pump at 20L per minute at 7M of head, so I have to restrict the flow through the pump for brewing. Pumping through a plate chiller and recirculating is not issue . . . I've even used a mix of Pellets and while hops and no sign of clogging/slowing . . . however I do use an 8" diameter hop stopper, which is more than capable of filtering anything thrown at it.