Yeast starter when using dried yeast?

[_jon_]

Do you guys generally make a yeast started for dried yeast? Or only when using liquid yeast?

I think the cell count is higher on dried yeast and as such I don't believe a starter is generally needed, but is it best to just make one anyway?

 

[MickDundee]

Some of the yeast manufacturers recommend you don’t make a starter for dried yeast.

I rarely ever even rehydrate dried yeasts and have never had any yeast issues.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
Are there any reasons why making a starter with dried yeast would be a poor idea?

 

[Sadfield]

The advantage of dried yeast is that it is more viable through storage, and so more accurate to calculate pitch rate. Making a starter would multiply the cell count by a random factor, which WOULDN'T be an advantage. Unless you had the facility to cell count before pitching. Easier and better to pitch the correct number of grams of dry yeast to achieve the desired cell count. Less risk of under or over pitching.

As for why you SHOULDN'T I'm not 100% sure on this, but I read somewhere that dry yeast is manufactered with reserves of the glycogen and sterols it needs to grow further, when pitched in wort. Perhaps using all these reserves up in a starter is counterproductive.

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[GerritT]

Small batch person here. I do what it says on the packing: just throw it on top. Sometimes a half package, when it's the last one left and I want to start another batch with that yeast without going out to the HB shop. Because, you know. You go in for a few quid errand and exit with both arms full :mrgreen:

 

[_jon_]

I think it seems the general consensus is not to make a starter and pitch straight from the packet. So that is what I'll do.

Most recipes seems to use Wyeast or other brands that I can never get hold of. I pretty much can only get Fermentis and as such I use Safeale us-05 for pretty much all IPA's.

In fact I've only ever used 3 different yeasts, the US-05, the english version, and the wheat beer yeast by the same company. Maybe I should be more adventurous or at least follow the recipe lol.

 

[Dexter101]

I tend to just pitch it dry, however with a brand (llallemand? (sp?)) it instructs you to add to water 20 minutes before pitching. Always seems to start frothing nicely in the jug and then takes longer to start than the normal way...

 

[Ajhutch]

https://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2010/06/the-importance-of-being-hydrated/

Nice summary of why one would rehydrate dry yeast. I've heard something similar to Sadfield about why you shouldn't make a starter, it's got extra glycogen compared to liquid yeast


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[Sadfield]

Yep, rehydration of yeast is a different process to making a starter, Dexter101. Making a starter is way of making more yeast cells via a mini fermentation.

Sprinkling dry yeast is the easiest and least risky way of pitching yeast, and what most manufacturers instruct because of this. As AjHutch has highlighted, rehydration does carry advantages.

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[Dexter101]

Thanks for clarifying @Sadfield

 

[Ciaran12s]

I've considered it but never bothered. I haven't really delved in to whole yeast world and experimentation as yet. I don't quite know enough about any of it. The packet says sprinkle dry on top - that's what I do and never had any issues.
I'm put off by the need to sanitise more equipment etc and as yet haven't bothered.
I've also wanted to get in to harvesting but again a very limited knowledge and on bottling day I can't be arsed just to save a couple of quid.

My rough plan is to someday buy liquid yeasts, get the hang of starters etc and then harvest the strains that came as liquid, because I'll have the hang of yeast handling and they cost a fair bit so the incentive is there in that regard.

One thing I have overlooked in the yeast world is temperature. I think I've ruined two batches now by pitching too hot. One fv has a temperature strip and the other doesn't. So I've been rubbing the side to see what the temperature is like and then pitching. I think they've maybe been ok but right at the top end and the activity has produced a lot of heat and therefore stressed the yeast resulting in the acetone that's definitely present in one batch. Hopefully the second which has just been bottled will be ok!

 

[strange-steve]

It's not so much that you shouldn't make a starter, but as sadfield say's, it's rather counterproductive. This is what Jamil Z (aka Mr Malty) says:

You generally don't want to make a starter for dry yeast. It is usually cheaper and easier to buy more dry yeast than it would be to make a starter. For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water; don't make a starter.

That being said I have done it in the past when in a pinch!

 

[nigelnorris]

I've seen that quote before and the guy is clearly in a different income bracket from me, because a fiver per pack for [branded] yeast isn't cheap. Mind you I'm keeping an eye on CML yeast thread while I'm waiting to exhaust the packs I have left in the fridge, a couple of quid a pack makes it viable to be chucking plenty in.

 

[MickDundee]

I've seen that quote before and the guy is clearly in a different income bracket from me, because a fiver per pack for [branded] yeast isn't cheap. Mind you I'm keeping an eye on CML yeast thread while I'm waiting to exhaust the packs I have left in the fridge, a couple of quid a pack makes it viable to be chucking plenty in.

Where is it a fiver a pack for dried yeast?

US-05 is £2.55 on GEB and the MJ yeasts I’ve bought have cost me between £1.90 and £3.20. TBF if I was going to nerd 2 or 3 packs I’d probably just buy liquid.

 

[MyQul]

Where is it a fiver a pack for dried yeast?

US-05 is �£2.55 on GEB and the MJ yeasts I’ve bought have cost me between �£1.90 and �£3.20. TBF if I was going to nerd 2 or 3 packs I’d probably just buy liquid.

The only £5 pack of dried yeast I know of is W-34/70. It's usually £4 -£5 per pack

 

[nigelnorris]

Where is it a fiver a pack for dried yeast?

US-05 is ���£2.55 on GEB and the MJ yeasts I’ve bought have cost me between ���£1.90 and ���£3.20. TBF if I was going to nerd 2 or 3 packs I’d probably just buy liquid.

Isn't it GEB that costs something like minimum 8 quid postage?

The only ���£5 pack of dried yeast I know of is W-34/70. It's usually ���£4 -���£5 per pack

Mind you I was certainly wrong at a fiver, just looked and the last yeast I bought was s-23 which I was about 4 quid.

Mind you if I've said it once I've said it a million times, exaggeration is my only failing.

And anyway I'll stand by my point, even three quid is still too much to be chucking about willy nilly, on a 15L batch that's an extra 10p a pint.